Installing a Dante card to the Wing internal slot.

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MJKlein
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Re: Installing a Dante card to the Wing internal slot.

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GaryH wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:49 pm @MJKlein It may very well prevent any more than 32, and the X-Dante firmware flash itself also may only set up 32 of the 64 available ch's, restrict it to 32 that is. We shall see. As I said in one of edits there, The Wing has a 64 ch card but only 48 ch's (can't believe I just said ONLY) Meaning it CAN use a dante card with more than its ch count so maybe the X32 can...probably no but fun to see if it can and put it to rest.
GaryH wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:02 pm @RexBeckett I don't think the X32 itself will ever be able to rout more than it can now. It would be the sources for them that might increase via Dante subscriptions and then realized with DVS and the DAW...still unlikely. I did try X-Dante in Wing-works fine, never thought to try the 64 ch Dante card in the X32 when I was in an easy position to do it. Now I would have to take the Wing apart to do so, I won't have to when Wing-Dante arrives. I also tried the Yamaha NY64 in the X32, it didn't work...but it didn't work anywhere
@GaryH if you are right about that and can show us how to achieve more than 32 channels of Dante available for routing on an X32 - I will create a Behringer World Award page and put your name at the top! For the list of me I cannot understand why 40 channels were not made available. Being able to route Dante channels to those Aux channels would significantly increase studio capability.

I'll be counting the days until when I can get the answer....
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Re: Installing a Dante card to the Wing internal slot.

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MJKlein wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:47 am
GaryH wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:49 pm @MJKlein It may very well prevent any more than 32, and the X-Dante firmware flash itself also may only set up 32 of the 64 available ch's, restrict it to 32 that is. We shall see. As I said in one of edits there, The Wing has a 64 ch card but only 48 ch's (can't believe I just said ONLY) Meaning it CAN use a dante card with more than its ch count so maybe the X32 can...probably no but fun to see if it can and put it to rest.
GaryH wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:02 pm @RexBeckett I don't think the X32 itself will ever be able to rout more than it can now. It would be the sources for them that might increase via Dante subscriptions and then realized with DVS and the DAW...still unlikely. I did try X-Dante in Wing-works fine, never thought to try the 64 ch Dante card in the X32 when I was in an easy position to do it. Now I would have to take the Wing apart to do so, I won't have to when Wing-Dante arrives. I also tried the Yamaha NY64 in the X32, it didn't work...but it didn't work anywhere
@GaryH if you are right about that and can show us how to achieve more than 32 channels of Dante available for routing on an X32 - I will create a Behringer World Award page and put your name at the top! For the list of me I cannot understand why 40 channels were not made available. Being able to route Dante channels to those Aux channels would significantly increase studio capability.

I'll be counting the days until when I can get the answer....
I don't think this will add more mixing channels to any of the consoles. The FPGA chips that perform the actual mixing are fixed architecture, and will not extend to provide more than what they are capable of. The only (should put quotes here) addition will be more routing flexibility due to additional input sources routes. And that added flexibility will be at the Dante patch panel level, not the X32.
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Re: Installing a Dante card to the Wing internal slot.

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@pmaillot I don't disagree. But I think IF the X32 works with a 64 ch card, it could still use a full 64 ch's of subscriptions via DVS to a DAW. In a way getting 64 full ch's of inputs in sync at once. If for instance one owned a few Yamaha Tio stageboxes connected to their Dante network, and an X32 with a 64 ch (functional) card in it. The X32 could rout its local (or aes50) ch's as its 'card out' sources. The first 32 ch subscriptions of Dante Controller could then be that. Dante Controller ch's 33-64 could be subscribed to the Tio preamps. The DAW via DVS could access all 64 ch's in sync. With 4ms latency you might even be able to pull off live mixing via the DAW and a computer, maybe a stretch. I mean you could do it anyway but latency (among other things) might be an issue in so doing. :-) All still conjecture on my part with the BIG if being a 64 ch card recognized inside the X-Dante frame as a full 64 ch card. Or you can just buy a Wing and do all that stuff anyway. I plan on trying it to see if one works at some point soon.

@MJKlein And darn it there goes my Behringer World award status :-) I had a spot on my wall cleared for it and everything, speech prepared :-)
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Re: Installing a Dante card to the Wing internal slot.

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pmaillot wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:03 am I don't think this will add more mixing channels to any of the consoles. The FPGA chips that perform the actual mixing are fixed architecture, and will not extend to provide more than what they are capable of. The only (should put quotes here) addition will be more routing flexibility due to additional input sources routes. And that added flexibility will be at the Dante patch panel level, not the X32.
-Patrick
If I'm understanding you @pmaillot could there possibly be more Dante card channels to choose from as blocks of 8 in the Routing section? So instead of going up to 32, it could possibly go up to 64, but the total number of channels the console could utilize would still be 32? If that is the case, that certainly could be immensely useful for facilities with large Dante audio networks. A DAW could be configured on 1-32 and then anything at all on the Dante network could be selected on the remaining 32 channels. It could be anything from a second DAW/PC to another studio altogether. That could be a very quick way to get a set of mics up on the desk from Dante.

Adam specifically said that the FPGA was the limitation. That being said the FPGA is "field programmable" and yeah, that makes me think about how could be reprogrammed. If I could just get 8 more channels of Dante, when I could have them on the Aux faders (including the useless USB 7/8 pair).
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Re: Installing a Dante card to the Wing internal slot.

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GaryH wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:35 pm I plan on trying it to see if one works at some point soon.

@MJKlein And darn it there goes my Behringer World award status I had a spot on my wall cleared for it and everything, speech prepared
I replied to @pmaillot's reply before reading yours @GaryH, but you said the same thing I did, lol.

So it if ends up being true, your award status will be intact even if we can't utilize more than 32 channels on the desk itself. Having access to more subscriptions on the network qualifies for an award!
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Re: Installing a Dante card to the Wing internal slot.

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MJKlein wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:06 am If I'm understanding you @pmaillot could there possibly be more Dante card channels to choose from as blocks of 8 in the Routing section? So instead of going up to 32, it could possibly go up to 64, but the total number of channels the console could utilize would still be 32? If that is the case, that certainly could be immensely useful for facilities with large Dante audio networks. A DAW could be configured on 1-32 and then anything at all on the Dante network could be selected on the remaining 32 channels. It could be anything from a second DAW/PC to another studio altogether. That could be a very quick way to get a set of mics up on the desk from Dante.
Yep
Adam specifically said that the FPGA was the limitation. That being said the FPGA is "field programmable" and yeah, that makes me think about how could be reprogrammed. If I could just get 8 more channels of Dante, when I could have them on the Aux faders (including the useless USB 7/8 pair).
FPGA are indeed re-programmable, but -1- it's not that easy, and -2- the number of available gates and their matrix arrangement are fixed values, hence the limitations I was mentioning in the architecture.
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Re: Installing a Dante card to the Wing internal slot.

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pmaillot wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:19 amYep
Wow.... @GaryH it's on you now.
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Re: Installing a Dante card to the Wing internal slot.

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@MJKlein How are you using Dante now and what makes up your current Dante network? Is it DVS and X-Dante or do you also have other Dante devices? I'm trying to visualize if Aux remap (using card 1-6) and/or some hybrid "user in" routing menu could help you out any right now. X-Dante as it stands today is just 32x32 but you could still get 40 mixing sources, including aux 7/8 sourced by other input ch's. I believe if you used Dante Controller to assign the first 6 subscriptions as your current Dante DVS ch's 27-32 then started at subscription 7 assigned to your current DVS ch's 1 thru 26-If you then set 'aux remap' to card 1-6, Dante card ch's 27-32 will be on the first 6 X32 aux ch's. (Edit: You may just be able to make the subscriptions work by assigning them in an order that lines them up correctly for you) You could then create "user in" bank 1-8 that had 6 local/aes50 or whatever sources and card 7/8 (card 7/8 now being Dante DVS ch 1/2) On the "input" routing page put 'user in' bank 1-8 in slot 1-8, card 9-16 in slot 9-16, card 17-24 in slot 17-24 and card 25-32 in slot 25-32. Your X32 should have all Dante ch's in order starting at ch 7 up through the first 6 aux ch's. It should have 6 local (or similar ch's) on ch 1-6. You could re-source aux ch 7 and 8 (on the config page under source) to say aux in 1 and 2 for a CD player or from another laptop (with maybe even Dante Via on it) You can't use Via and DVS at the same time on a single computer but you can use one each on 2 different computers, that would also give you another Dante device for Dante Controller to subscribe to. You won't get more than 32 Dante ch's from X-Dante but you get to use 40 X32 ch's utilizing the 8 aux's and up to 6 local ch's too. Might be something to fool with anyway.
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Re: Installing a Dante card to the Wing internal slot.

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@GaryH That's some good routing info, Gary, and thanks for taking the time to type all of that out. I'm using DVS until I upgrade to a PCI card. My network is only the X32 and DVS currently. Plans are to put the Ghost on the network too, for tracking. I don't use the local inputs on my X32 very often at all, as virtually all of my sources go into the Ghost and come up on the X32 on Aux channels (love that analog color!). The limitation is the 32 channels through the card, no matter what. I need all 32 channels to be DAW tracks, and anything else would be in addition to that. I use my console exclusively in the studio. I've never read about/seen videos of anyone who is using the X32 like I am. I'm very much using it as an inline recording console (which is what I'm used to). There isn't enough time in the world but I really should do a video series on the X32 with AutoMate for studios. Thanks Gary.
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Re: Installing a Dante card to the Wing internal slot.

Post by GaryH »

@MJKlein Well it looks like you may be kind of out of luck if you require the X32 mixer faders and all ch processing to do what you do when playing back/mixing. You could use the aux ch's for part of that though if you wanted to. (I thought I remembered you lamenting the aux ch's as being wasted mixer space)

The X32 Dante system is as you know based around card in and card out routing. Card in/out routing is capped at 32x32 so even if you can access many more Dante sources with Dante Controller, you would have to choose 32 at a time. 32 regardless of what ch's used to mix them, 1-32 or aux.. It looks like you would need another X32 and Dante Card to get all the faders and processing going in sync the way you would need them to work. The scenario with DVS set for 64 ch and a DAW would work accessing and recording/playing back more sources on a larger Dante network but mixing would all have to be done within the DAW. All daw output ch's most likely going to a single X32 stereo pair like 1/2. I suppose you could use DAW subgroups/buses and spread the outputs in some useful manner to get 32 full playback ch's. That might be interesting. The mystery of pursuing any of this with a chance of a functioning 64 ch X-Dante card will soon be laid to rest if July 9 arrival date is correct.
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