Installing a Dante card to the Wing internal slot.

[GaryH]

Installing an internal Dante Card in a Wing console Version 1 (a work in progress)

I figure there will be many owners of the Wing-Dante card that will soon decide to take the card out of the external frame and put it into the internal slot. There also will be some people who may buy or already have bought aftermarket cards. This post is meant to help in that process. If you have Wing-Dante, you must remove the actual Dante card from the frame. Carefully spread the 2 clips that secure it in place, the card will then angle up and will then come easily come out of the slot. Use an antistatic wrist band or first ground yourself to the metal frame to make sure of no ESD, don’t touch the contacts on the card.

MY Dante Wing internal INSTALL NOTES

Performing this task is NOT for everyone but it also is NOT rocket science. Anyone with reasonable mechanical skills should be able to do it without ANY damage to their mixer or themselves. You really need just one tool, a Phillips screwdriver (ok and probably an antistatic wrist band too). Doing this installation could possibly void your warranty, it should not-but it could. Know this going in and there will be no one else to blame if something happens (it should not). As you probably already know, Behringer requires a MTASC to do this work. So despite providing this little guide, it is my suggestion that you do just that. Have a certified service center install your card! BUT for those of you who are more adventurous, impatient or perhaps just don’t care there is this. FIRST and foremost make sure you unplug the mixer from the power source. My personal opinion is the risk of possible shock is the main reason Behringer (or any company) does not want you inside their mixer. Use caution! I consider removing the power source (removing the plug!) using a screwdriver and proper antistatic precautions all to be reasonable things to do. That said if you choose to do this, you ALONE are responsible for all outcomes. I have been through the process for one reason or another 5 or 6 times without any problems. Go slowly and carefully and you will be just fine.

To start with you will need to get a 64x64 ch Brooklyn II Dante Card. Several companies use this card in their products. It appears that all version Dante cards can be flashed to only work within certain systems, so some may work in a Wing and some not. The 4v1 version will be the one in the Wing-Dante expansion card. it should still work ok as an internal card if you decide to do that. Behringer 4v1 cards should not be locked out for Wing internal slot use. Notice I said “should” not. I have heard there are minor networking differences. Edit: I just learned it’s a third networking option available for the internal firmware version of the Wing Dante Card. I think Audinate may have now updated all their new Brooklyn II cards to be 4v1 versions. The 3B version (like mine) may only be available in older products so they could be pretty scarce! I did try the new and old Yamaha NY64, they will NOT work in the Wing! The issue being Dante Controller would NOT recognize the cards. All the internal Wing settings related to a Dante card were all functioning as they should. But without Dante Controller, no communication can be established in a Dante network-rendering it useless. There may be a flash process of some sort to get around this but I do not know how to do it or if that’s even really possible without special equipment. It could be the A+H 64 ch card and the Protools 64 ch card work, both have B3 pcb versions BUT both are very expensive and I have NOT tested either. So be forewarned. The Wing-Dante card will work.

You may need to remove the actual Dante daughterboard from the expansion card frame, if that’s indeed how you get yours you most certainly will. Maybe 2 screws, release side clips and out. Easy. It appears Behringer does not screw down their card in the expansion frame, so you just need to release the 2 side clips! Use an anti static wrist strap or similar product or anti static safe process to remove, handle and install the card in the Wing!! ESD can destroy electronic devices so use caution. The cards are pretty bulletproof really but extra care will ensure success. This is an expensive item. With reasonable care it should not be a problem. Take precautions going in and all should be fine.

Ok, on to the fun stuff! Turn the Wing over on its front side making sure you properly PROTECT all the faders, knobs and the touch screen. Use a soft padded surface to support it. Choose something that is still firm but has some soft give to it. The mixer as you probably already know is quite heavy so have someone assist you in turning it over if possible. I first used 2 thick folded moving blankets which worked out very well. I then later ended up using a living room recliner, which might be a better way if you have one available. This way the mixer surface can be almost upright in the chair, knobs, faders resting against the cushioned chair back and still remain secure and well protected. It also allows the back cover to swing down (on the recliner seat) and out at the best angle which imo is much easier to navigate and correctly place the new Dante card. Don’t over extend the cover when it swings out. It can scratch the back of the mixer surface where the 1/4 in jacks meet the mixer back. I suggest using some tape loosely over either the jacks or the case to help protect the underside. I also used a few pillows to help protect the faders while in the chair and to offer a way to get a more upright angle.

Remove the 21 screws from the black center section, it’s the section the feet are attached to. There are 5 screws along each side, 6 along its bottom edge and 5 along the top edge. Once the screws are ALL removed the back will swing open on a hinge like mechanism. The hinged part is on the widest side of the cover. I left the 2 middle screws in the bottom (narrow) section in until it was all ready to open up. The black cover is kind of a wedge shape, if you keep the narrow side of the wedge at the top as it faces you, (screen side of the mixer facing down into the chair) when it swings open it will lay flat down in front of you and in the best position to install the card, leaving the mixer surface itself still mostly upright. The videos I’ve watched do it just the opposite. I find my way is MUCH better. Putting the card in while the slot is upside down is very hard. You may not find it so. The card slot sits just behind the rj45 “control” jacks. It sits at the lower rear edge where the back hinges against the mixer. Though quite accessible there, it is also in a bit of an awkward spot. It therefore takes a little bit more effort and extra care to install the card correctly. The card itself installs just like laptop computer memory, the contacts insert on a slight angle fully into the slot. 2 clips, 1 on each side of the slot secure and lock the card flat into position. The card has a keyed slot, make sure you install it with the slot on the correct side. It will only go in one way, so don’t force it. If you had to remove the card from a manufacturers card frame like the Wing-Dante frame, or you have ever installed laptop computer ram, you know already how this works. The card needs to be angled into the slot under the metal cover before you get it in, otherwise it will end up hitting against that metal shield while trying to get it flat in the slot. Once the card is secured flat down in the slot, swing the back cover to normal position making sure nothing, cables etc, gets pinched in the process and then reinstall just 2 screws. I would suggest only installing a few screws (2) in order to check for full operation, once you are sure it is working as it should, then install the rest. 3 easy checks to determine this. 1) In the setup/audio page you will now see Dante in the clock drop down menu. 2) In the routing menu Dante will now be specific named category listed as a routing option. The last and most important test is to connect via lan cable to a computer with Dante Controller installed on it. I used the control port nearest the plug FWIW but either should work. That may change in future firmware. I did try the other port and it also worked fine, at least it does for now. When connected to an ethernet computer network, Dante Controller should see the card pretty much right away. If so you are all set, other than routine subscriptions and other things you may want to setup in Dante Controller. Reinstall any remaining screws. That’s it! Turn your mixer back on and you now should have 64 ch’s of Dante installed internally with full use of original 64 ch Wing-Live card as well!

[pmaillot]

Cool! Thanks for that description.... I'll go over these steps soon...
-Patrick

[MJKlein]

Off Topic

I would like 40 channels of Dante with my X32 as I also have those 8 Aux inputs I could use, if I could get routing to happen. Would it be worth putting a 64 channel Brooklyn card in my X-Dante expansion card and see what happens? Does anyone with both WING Dante and X32 Dante want to try it?

[GaryH]

@MJKlein If my "real" Wing-Dante card arrives anytime soon I will try it.

[MJKlein]

@MJKlein If my "real" Wing-Dante card arrives anytime soon I will try it.

Outstanding! We could never get away with discussing these hacks on the official site.

[GaryH]

@MJKlein They may still have some spy's My gut feeling is IF it works in the X-Dante frame, the likely outcome will be only 32 ch's can be used of it. Might be you need a Wing! Or a second X32/m32, maybe a used Core/M32C or a rack with another X-Dante card to get up to 64ch's. I did try the Yamaha ny64 in X-Dante because it wasn't recognized while in the Wing. I thought maybe the card was itself damaged but it was not. It didn't work in either mixer, somehow out of sight (locked out by Yamaha unless it's in a TF series mixer)) to Dante Controller. I suspect better luck with Wing-Dante card in the x-dante frame BUT probably it still will be just 32 ch's. We shall see. Sadly I don't expect to see my Wing-Dante till July (boo) Maybe I get surprised early! X-Dante works just fine in the Wing btw. EDIT: If I have cause to take out my current 64ch Dante card, I will try that too in the X-Dante frame. It's working very well in the Wing so I don't want to rock the boat at the moment...

[curtbl]

Installing an internal Dante Card in a Wing console Version 1 (a work in progress)

I figure there will be many owners of the Wing-Dante card that will soon decide to take the card out of the external frame and put it into the internal slot. There also will be some people who may buy or already have bought aftermarket cards. This post is meant to help in that process. If you have Wing-Dante, you must remove the actual Dante card from the frame. Carefully spread the 2 clips that secure it in place, the card will then angle up and will then come easily come out of the slot. Use an antistatic wrist band or first ground yourself to the metal frame to make sure of no ESD, don’t touch the contacts on the card.

MY Dante Wing internal INSTALL NOTES

Performing this task is NOT for everyone but it also is NOT rocket science. Anyone with reasonable mechanical skills should be able to do it without ANY damage to their mixer or themselves. You really need just one tool, a Phillips screwdriver (ok and probably an antistatic wrist band too). Doing this installation could possibly void your warranty, it should not-but it could. Know this going in and there will be no one else to blame if something happens (it should not). As you probably already know, Behringer requires a MTASC to do this work. So despite providing this little guide, it is my suggestion that you do just that. Have a certified service center install your card! BUT for those of you who are more adventurous, impatient or perhaps just don’t care there is this. FIRST and foremost make sure you unplug the mixer from the power source. My personal opinion is the risk of possible shock is the main reason Behringer (or any company) does not want you inside their mixer. Use caution! I consider removing the power source (removing the plug!) using a screwdriver and proper antistatic precautions all to be reasonable things to do. That said if you choose to do this, you ALONE are responsible for all outcomes. I have been through the process for one reason or another 5 or 6 times without any problems. Go slowly and carefully and you will be just fine.

To start with you will need to get a 64x64 ch Brooklyn II Dante Card. Several companies use this card in their products. It appears that all version Dante cards can be flashed to only work within certain systems, so some may work in a Wing and some not. The 4v1 version will be the one in the Wing-Dante expansion card. it should still work ok as an internal card if you decide to do that. Behringer 4v1 cards should not be locked out for Wing internal slot use. Notice I said “should” not. I have heard there are minor networking differences. Edit: I just learned it’s a third networking option available for the internal firmware version of the Wing Dante Card. I think Audinate may have now updated all their new Brooklyn II cards to be 4v1 versions. The 3B version (like mine) may only be available in older products so they could be pretty scarce! I did try the new and old Yamaha NY64, they will NOT work in the Wing! The issue being Dante Controller would NOT recognize the cards. All the internal Wing settings related to a Dante card were all functioning as they should. But without Dante Controller, no communication can be established in a Dante network-rendering it useless. There may be a flash process of some sort to get around this but I do not know how to do it or if that’s even really possible without special equipment. It could be the A+H 64 ch card and the Protools 64 ch card work, both have B3 pcb versions BUT both are very expensive and I have NOT tested either. So be forewarned. The Wing-Dante card will work.

You may need to remove the actual Dante daughterboard from the expansion card frame, if that’s indeed how you get yours you most certainly will. Maybe 2 screws, release side clips and out. Easy. It appears Behringer does not screw down their card in the expansion frame, so you just need to release the 2 side clips! Use an anti static wrist strap or similar product or anti static safe process to remove, handle and install the card in the Wing!! ESD can destroy electronic devices so use caution. The cards are pretty bulletproof really but extra care will ensure success. This is an expensive item. With reasonable care it should not be a problem. Take precautions going in and all should be fine.

Ok, on to the fun stuff! Turn the Wing over on its front side making sure you properly PROTECT all the faders, knobs and the touch screen. Use a soft padded surface to support it. Choose something that is still firm but has some soft give to it. The mixer as you probably already know is quite heavy so have someone assist you in turning it over if possible. I first used 2 thick folded moving blankets which worked out very well. I then later ended up using a living room recliner, which might be a better way if you have one available. This way the mixer surface can be almost upright in the chair, knobs, faders resting against the cushioned chair back and still remain secure and well protected. It also allows the back cover to swing down (on the recliner seat) and out at the best angle which imo is much easier to navigate and correctly place the new Dante card. Don’t over extend the cover when it swings out. It can scratch the back of the mixer surface where the 1/4 in jacks meet the mixer back. I suggest using some tape loosely over either the jacks or the case to help protect the underside. I also used a few pillows to help protect the faders while in the chair and to offer a way to get a more upright angle.

Remove the 21 screws from the black center section, it’s the section the feet are attached to. There are 5 screws along each side, 6 along its bottom edge and 5 along the top edge. Once the screws are ALL removed the back will swing open on a hinge like mechanism. The hinged part is on the widest side of the cover. I left the 2 middle screws in the bottom (narrow) section in until it was all ready to open up. The black cover is kind of a wedge shape, if you keep the narrow side of the wedge at the top as it faces you, (screen side of the mixer facing down into the chair) when it swings open it will lay flat down in front of you and in the best position to install the card, leaving the mixer surface itself still mostly upright. The videos I’ve watched do it just the opposite. I find my way is MUCH better. Putting the card in while the slot is upside down is very hard. You may not find it so. The card slot sits just behind the rj45 “control” jacks. It sits at the lower rear edge where the back hinges against the mixer. Though quite accessible there, it is also in a bit of an awkward spot. It therefore takes a little bit more effort and extra care to install the card correctly. The card itself installs just like laptop computer memory, the contacts insert on a slight angle fully into the slot. 2 clips, 1 on each side of the slot secure and lock the card flat into position. The card has a keyed slot, make sure you install it with the slot on the correct side. It will only go in one way, so don’t force it. If you had to remove the card from a manufacturers card frame like the Wing-Dante frame, or you have ever installed laptop computer ram, you know already how this works. The card needs to be angled into the slot under the metal cover before you get it in, otherwise it will end up hitting against that metal shield while trying to get it flat in the slot. Once the card is secured flat down in the slot, swing the back cover to normal position making sure nothing, cables etc, gets pinched in the process and then reinstall just 2 screws. I would suggest only installing a few screws (2) in order to check for full operation, once you are sure it is working as it should, then install the rest. 3 easy checks to determine this. 1) In the setup/audio page you will now see Dante in the clock drop down menu. 2) In the routing menu Dante will now be specific named category listed as a routing option. The last and most important test is to connect via lan cable to a computer with Dante Controller installed on it. I used the control port nearest the plug FWIW but either should work. That may change in future firmware. I did try the other port and it also worked fine, at least it does for now. When connected to an ethernet computer network, Dante Controller should see the card pretty much right away. If so you are all set, other than routine subscriptions and other things you may want to setup in Dante Controller. Reinstall any remaining screws. That’s it! Turn your mixer back on and you now should have 64 ch’s of Dante installed internally with full use of original 64 ch Wing-Live card as well!

Gary, great explanation, saved me doing it as I was about to. I would only add that I found using a couch and soft blankets worked well for me. I put the Wing down on the Wing armrest edge and slowly tilted it down so by the time it was mostly down it was pretty flat and avoided the stress on any of the knobs that indeed can pop off. then with the screws removed I can tilt the base 90 degrees up. I have opened the Wing no less than about 10 times doing the same things that you describe. A X32 card, a 8x8 card and NY64 card from Yamaha, and the Kevic 64x64. All with the same outcome that you have described. I'm now using Dante as the audio input from Reaper through DVS on the computer. Very happy with results.
I would include pictures but havent totally figured out the upload process.
Seriously Gary thanks for the very detailed explanation! As you waiting on the Wing Dante card to see what the "networking" differences are between having the card external with added external board features and internal .... I happy that both the board, Dante card and External PC plugged into the remaining port all get DHCP addresses from my domain controller. It's sweet
Curt

[MJKlein]

Gary, great explanation, saved me doing it as I was about to. I would only add that I found using a couch and soft blankets worked well for me. I put the Wing down on the Wing armrest edge and slowly tilted it down so by the time it was mostly down it was pretty flat and avoided the stress on any of the knobs that indeed can pop off. then with the screws removed I can tilt the base 90 degrees up. I have opened the Wing no less than about 10 times doing the same things that you describe. A X32 card, a 8x8 card and NY64 card from Yamaha, and the Kevic 64x64. All with the same outcome that you have described. I'm now using Dante as the audio input from Reaper through DVS on the computer. Very happy with results.
I would include pictures but havent totally figured out the upload process.
Seriously Gary thanks for the very detailed explanation! As you waiting on the Wing Dante card to see what the "networking" differences are between having the card external with added external board features and internal .... I happy that both the board, Dante card and External PC plugged into the remaining port all get DHCP addresses from my domain controller. It's sweet
Curt

Curt, did you put an X32 USB expansion card in the WING, or an X-Dante's Brooklyn card in the WING? If the latter, how many channels of Dante audio did you have?

My experience with Dante and Reaper has been awesome. I suggest that you do a loopback test and add manual compensation. Also, set all your tracks to Preserve PDC delayed monitoring in recorded items (right-click on Record button).

[curtbl]

Gary, great explanation, saved me doing it as I was about to. I would only add that I found using a couch and soft blankets worked well for me. I put the Wing down on the Wing armrest edge and slowly tilted it down so by the time it was mostly down it was pretty flat and avoided the stress on any of the knobs that indeed can pop off. then with the screws removed I can tilt the base 90 degrees up. I have opened the Wing no less than about 10 times doing the same things that you describe. A X32 card, a 8x8 card and NY64 card from Yamaha, and the Kevic 64x64. All with the same outcome that you have described. I'm now using Dante as the audio input from Reaper through DVS on the computer. Very happy with results.
I would include pictures but havent totally figured out the upload process.
Seriously Gary thanks for the very detailed explanation! As you waiting on the Wing Dante card to see what the "networking" differences are between having the card external with added external board features and internal .... I happy that both the board, Dante card and External PC plugged into the remaining port all get DHCP addresses from my domain controller. It's sweet
Curt

Curt, did you put an X32 USB expansion card in the WING, or an X-Dante's Brooklyn card in the WING? If the latter, how many channels of Dante audio did you have?

My experience with Dante and Reaper has been awesome. I suggest that you do a loopback test and add manual compensation. Also, set all your tracks to Preserve PDC delayed monitoring in recorded items (right-click on Record button).

MJ, thanks for the info your suggestions on Reaper..... So far loving it... Just finding time to spend to become more proficient!!!

I did try a x32 card and got 32 channels, I had a 8x8 laying around and it did 8 channels, and finally have a Kevic original BrooklynII card that is 64x64 and indeed a full 64inx64out of the Wing. I'm waiting, as everyone else, to get the XDante card and then test the differences in having the card in the external slot as intended and then pull the Brooklyn II card off the XDante external and install it to the internal slot where my Kevic 64x64 is now. My "assumption" is that there will be no difference in the Audio/Dante operation, however interested to see if there are additional functions on the external XDante card that show up when installed.
Again I'm "assuming" that the XDante card installed in the external slot will allow for Primary and Secondary Dante Network connections and possible other features, while the Wing network port is still available. for control and other future internal cards?
Where when installed internally it utilizes the existing network port on the wing and allows for the second port to be another network port. It appears that the Wing has a 3 port network hub/switch internal, the card slot is 1 port and 2 ports on the console. And then has Behringer programmed their BrooklynII card with additional features that go beyond the typical 64x64 which usually found on the support card.
Time will tell. So for now having 64x64 Dante internal to the Wing has been a wonderful added feature.
Curt

[GaryH]

@MJKlein @curtbl I had the same experience with the X-Dnte card, works just fine in a Wing but 32 ch's. Yamaha 64-D does NOT work, either the B3 or 4v1 chip, doesn't make a difference. I'm considering a 'spoof' of the Yamaha I currently still have (it is also currently for sale) by using the fail safe Audinate firmware recovery process and forcing the Kevic or Behringer firmware files down its throat! It most likely wouldn't work but my wheels have been spinning about the possibility none the less. I am of course worried I will "brick" it. I am scared Give up one Yamaha NY64 card in the name of science? She blinded me with science....



@MJKlein

"did you put an X32 USB expansion card in the WING"

The X32 usb card will not fit in a wing. Unlike the X-Dante version which has a removable Mini PCI card, USB is an integral part of the circuitry of the X32 card and not removable from the expansion frame. The 2 frames are of different sizes. The frames are not interchangeable, x32 to Wing. The only reason the Wing-Dante Card or X-Dante card works in a Wing internal slot is because the Dante mini-pci card can be removed from the frame. All Brooklyn 2 Dante Mini PCI cards are the same size...8ch, 16, 32 or 64, and by size worth their weight in gold so it appears....they are pretty tiny, weigh next to nothing. Ridiculously over priced too imo. Paying big time for R=D but such is life. I have been contributing happily to most Music companies R+D for years, why stop now.