AES50 Cables and ESD

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GaryH
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Re: AES50 Cables and ESD

Post by GaryH »

@Dan Mortensen Thats a challenge I probably won’t meet. I never intended to use even the 300 feet sections together. This was only done to show the FB doubters that Cat8 not only worked but worked well even at longer distances under poor conditions (using multiple interconnected reels) I made those reels for other shorter chores, device to device. I would want to use one non interrupted longer length (150-250) reel in a real life situation that required such length. 350 feet especially interconnected like that would be tempting fate a bit too much. Yes, I would love to test them with a really good meter, perhaps one day I get one to try. I’ll keep an eye out for a good deal on one or borrow one if I can.
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MJKlein
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Re: AES50 Cables and ESD

Post by MJKlein »

GaryH wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:47 am This was only done to show the FB doubters that Cat8 not only worked but worked well
I'm absolutely shocked that the FB fact-checkers haven't straightened everyone out on that issue, like they do with all other issues.
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GaryH
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Re: AES50 Cables and ESD

Post by GaryH »

@Dan Mortensen Hey Dan, will this one do the trick?
Dan Mortensen
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Re: AES50 Cables and ESD

Post by Dan Mortensen »

GaryH wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 1:24 pm @Dan Mortensen Hey Dan, will this one do the trick?
Well, first, my ability to understand this networking stuff is to pretty much parrot what trusted people have told me, so I don't think I'm qualified to go in new directions.

That said, looking at this closely, in the "Test Cables" description, it says "The TVR10/100/1000 is also a pairs tester - telling you which pairs are wired and whether they are straight through or crossover."

That is nice to know, but tells nowhere near enough of the story. You need to know the data capacity of the cable you are looking at, in its current configuration and as wired.

Since this thing tells you what speed two Ethernet devices have negotiated to talk to each other, I suppose you could do that first with two trusted cables, then insert your cable-under-test and see if that negotiated speed is the same or has dropped down. That's kind of a kludged test rig, though; the ones that I linked to don't need this other stuff.

And it won't work to test between our consoles and stage boxes, since AES50 is not Ethernet-compatible or vice versa. That's why we can't use switches and things like that between console and stage box.

People who are actually experts may feel differently than this, but that'll be my feeling until I learn different.
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GaryH
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Re: AES50 Cables and ESD

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I had occasion to grab a 10 foot piece of flat style Cat8 cable and decided to try and refit it with new rj45’s and ethercons. Just curious to see what would happen. They claim it to be of tactical strength and durability, being flat has its own set of positive potential uses so what the heck. Stripping it back was a challenge but not as bad as I thought. I split it back with a utility knife about 2-2-1/2 in. The shielded pairs line up evenly next to each other and so pulled out cleanly. The ground was little hard to locate but once I did it also came out cleanly. Getting the foil shields pulled back from each pair was a pain, it’s just plain tedious with this style cable. I used staggered pass through rf45’s. Copper tape to secure the ground and shield to the cable ends. Fully inserted and crimped cable ends to rj45’s and tested connections, all working. Added ethercons (continuity end to end) and tested again in the system, all green, all good! Might be a future contender for a longer run at about 33 cents/ft. No sparker tests this time but I’m confident it would pass with flying colors.
RexBeckett
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Re: AES50 Cables and ESD

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I've been using flat shielded Cat7 cable for Ethernet connections and patching for some years. I like the flexibility of these cables and the ability to route them through gaps where normal round ones don't fit. They are also available in a wide range of lengths including very short ones. I have a personal hatred of bundles of excess cable around my gear.

I had been wondering what it would take to fit etherCON shells for AES50 and now I know. Thanks very much, @GaryH .
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GaryH
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Re: AES50 Cables and ESD

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@RexBeckett Depending on the style rj45 on your current cable, you can maybe trim back the rubber/plastic part of the rj45 to get them to fit inside an ethercon. If so then you need the style ethercon specific for premade cable. Most cat7/8 have rj45’s without that little step (slight L shape to the rj45) That little step is kind of critical to holding the rj45 in the exact spot it needs to be in the ethercon shell. One reason I replace them. If you do replace them you can then use any style ethercon you want. You can make the other style rj45 (trimmed) work too but it’s sort of touch and go with proper position
curtbl
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Re: AES50 Cables and ESD

Post by curtbl »

I've been gone for a few days and it is great to catch up on this thread and the findings.

So let me throw a wrench in the mix. As most of you know that have been following the Internal Dante card thread I have been putting the Wing in place of a Digico S31.
Honestly it's been a surprise as to the difference so much better, back on subject..... I actually ran the Wing and a DL32, cause I didn't have anything else, over 200 feet on non shielded, in conduit, non ethercon cable and didn't have any issues.... I say that knowing anything could have happened causing AES 50 ports to blow up and I was lucky.

That said, in the midst of those tests I realized something I had forgotten. The Digico Madi connections are running on Ethernet cabling with one twist there are Ferrite beads on each end of the non shielded Ethernet cables without ethercons. So I switch the cabling over to the Wing and all worked fine however I had no time or tools to test. So very curious if having the ferrite beads made enough of a difference to eliminate the need for Ethercons and shielded cabling.

NOT trying to stir up a conversation about NOT using the Behringer quoted standard Cat 5 shielded with Ethercons but very curious if the brain trust here thinks this is a viable option ..... Digico uses Madi over ethernet, it as an option on the Dracks instead of fiber or coax.
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RexBeckett
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Re: AES50 Cables and ESD

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curtbl wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 6:17 pm So very curious if having the ferrite beads made enough of a difference to eliminate the need for Ethercons and shielded cabling.
Ferrite chokes on cables are normally used to control EMI rather than as protection against ESD. The design of Digico's Madi interface may be more tolerant to ESD so that a ground path through the cable shield is not necessary.

It would be interesting to test on X32 and Wing AES50 interfaces, though. After you...
RexBeckett
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Re: AES50 Cables and ESD

Post by RexBeckett »

GaryH wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 5:56 pm @RexBeckett Depending on the style rj45 on your current cable, you can maybe trim back the rubber/plastic part of the rj45 to get them to fit inside an ethercon. If so then you need the style ethercon specific for premade cable. Most cat7/8 have rj45’s without that little step (slight L shape to the rj45) That little step is kind of critical to holding the rj45 in the exact spot it needs to be in the ethercon shell. One reason I replace them. If you do replace them you can then use any style ethercon you want. You can make the other style rj45 (trimmed) work too but it’s sort of touch and go with proper position
Thanks for the info, Gary. From a quick check, some of my flat cables do have the step on the RJ45 but some don't. Seems like those that I bought most recently don't have the step. I shall have-at one of the older cables with a knife and see if I can fit an etherCON shell.
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