Sends on faders for subgroups

[dsberry]

Hi All, I'm just starting to find my way around an X32 and am confused by the behaviour of the Sends on Faders button for subgroups. My understanding of a subgroup (please correct me if I am wrong) is that it is essentially a mixbus to which all source channels send at a fixed level of 0dB. Yet when I select a subgroup bus on the output faders side of the desk, then press Sends on Faders, the left hand input sliders get driven to all sorts of various levels. My expectation was that they should all be driven to 0dB. Yet on the other hand, when I select an input channel on the left hand side and go to the Home screen, the send level shown at the right hand side of the home screen indicates a simple orange button (as expected), rather than the orange sliders shown for the other non-subgroup buses. This presumably confirms that the bus is genuinely set up as a subrgoup (I've double checked this in the home/config screen for the subgroup bus).

So my question is, why do the faders get driven to various different send levels when using Sends on Faders for a subgroup, whereas the home screen for each individual channel shows a simple on/off state for each channel that is sent to the subgroup. Are the levels on the faders simply ignored by the X32 with 0dB being used instead?

[pvannatto]

So my question is, why do the faders get driven to various different send levels when using Sends on Faders for a subgroup, whereas the home screen for each individual channel shows a simple on/off state for each channel that is sent to the subgroup. Are the levels on the faders simply ignored by the X32 with 0dB being used instead?

Welcome to our forum. Yes indeed the signal path simply ignores those fader levels when the taps are set to subgroups. When you press the SOF, the console does report those fader levels, even though they are not included in the signal paths.

[KMaxwell]

I prefer to not use the SubGroup mode I just use post fader sends and then I basically have variable SubGroups. It can come in handy if you want to send different levels to different Bus sends and then send that to the Matrix outputs for your house speakers. and when you switch to sends on faders it is very obvious which ones are on and which ones aren't.

I am doing a musical right now and I have a mix bus for dialog and a different mix bus for singing and switch between them in the cues. Because some of the actors sing soft and talk loud (and some the other way around) and this way I am able to set it up to compensate for that.

Just a suggestion and another way to do it.

[No_Season_5288]

I prefer to not use the SubGroup mode I just use post fader sends and then I basically have variable SubGroups. It can come in handy if you want to send different levels to different Bus sends and then send that to the Matrix outputs for your house speakers. and when you switch to sends on faders it is very obvious which ones are on and which ones aren't.

For the FX returns to that mixbus pair, change the taps from subgroup to post-fader. That will provide you a sends level fader control.

Subgroups are a special post-fader tap, where the sends levels are set to 0 db, pan follows the Main LR pan, etc.

Just trying to get clear on the distinction between / relative virtues of bussing channels to Main LR as as a subgroup vs as a post fader mixbus -

given that the send levels in a subgroup are set to 0 db, is that to say that, when compressing or EQ'ing the bus, the Main LR "sees" the individual channel faders but processing is applied uniformly to each of the channels sent to the subgroup, but the fader for the subgroup controls the contribution of each channel to the Main LR? My understanding was that setting up a mixnus as a subgroup and unassigning the individual channels from the Main LR effectively turns the channel faders into "subgroup sends".

Also, re: this quote - https://www.reddit.com/r/livesound/s/dpxksBzjGw


Is that to say that when channels sends to a mixbus are configured post fader and the bus is sent to Main LR, the bus should be sent at 0 db because in this case the bus DOES see the individual channel contributions?