AES50 Cables and ESD

Klaus
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Re: AES50 Cables and ESD

Post by Klaus »

Thank you very much GaryH
I may be lucky ,
my new ones seem to look the same...
but not pass-through design
well time will show....

BTW
Neutrik's compatibility list
https://www.neutrik.com/media/12939/dow ... 22.pdf?v=9
has some 'unstepped' ones to...

Thanks all for the detailed help !
Best

Klaus
Last edited by Klaus on Sun Oct 16, 2022 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MJKlein
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Re: AES50 Cables and ESD

Post by MJKlein »

@garyh I've been enjoying this discussion and now I am thinking that maybe my Dante Audio Network would benefit from Ethercons.
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GaryH
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Re: AES50 Cables and ESD

Post by GaryH »

@MJKlein Dante audio networks are not as susceptible to the effects of esd as aes50 systems so you are probably ok with good quality network cable. Nonetheless ethercons are great for making a strong mechanical connection. The X-Dante card and many other similar Dante devices don’t offer an ethercon connector so that is a factor as well. The Wing-Dante card has them but the Wing internal card ports do not. I have several other Dante devices with no ethercon connector.
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MJKlein
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Re: AES50 Cables and ESD

Post by MJKlein »

GaryH wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 12:02 am @MJKlein Dante audio networks are not as susceptible to the effects of esd as aes50 systems so you are probably ok with good quality network cable. Nonetheless ethercons are great for making a strong mechanical connection. The X-Dante card and many other similar Dante devices don’t offer an ethercon connector so that is a factor as well. The Wing-Dante card has them but the Wing internal card ports do not. I have several other Dante devices with no ethercon connector.
So it would seem to be an industry consensus that Ethercons are not beneficial in that application.
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GaryH
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Re: AES50 Cables and ESD

Post by GaryH »

@MJKlein I think that is a safe assumption. Lots of times with Dante systems there ends up a network switch or 2 involved as well which do not accept ethercon adaptors. I once long ago (well over 5 years) had a back and forth interchange with Neutrik regarding ethercons and how they function within aes50 systems and they maintained emphatically (several times) that ethercons have NO electrical properties at all. The effect with aes50 in blocking ESD seems to be a coincidental one however not by design. It is still the accepted standard for aes50 cables, shielded cable, shielded rj45, shield connected on both cable ends WITH ethercons.
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Re: AES50 Cables and ESD

Post by GaryH »

Edit 06/24/24 Another newer Dave Rat video about AES50



I've added the Dave Rat youtube video here as it directly relates to the issue discussed and has a lot of other interesting points as well. To be transparent, Dave Rat does have some ulterior motives here too. He is actively selling cable that uses Cat6 ($640 reels) so it is to his advantage business wise to help dispel the Cat5 only business. BUT at least he does so with tests, test results and facts!! Refreshing! I do not doubt that his product versions are of great quality. I will add from my own personal experience that Cat7 and Cat 8 work very very well and can be made much cheaper than $640 (And I’m not selling anything :-))



I recently had a (somewhat heated) exchange over on the FB private forums regarding Cat5E. I knew well going in where I had placed myself. Kind of like the guy at the county fair who sits in a chair over a tank of water while people try to hit the target and dunk him in. I do that every now and again over there in an attempt to dispel, imo, the old wives tale that Cat5E is the ONLY cable that will work for AES50. It did not matter what i quoted, what examples (from MT even) i gave, true believers can't be convinced otherwise, or won't ever admit they might be wrong.

I did get some satisfaction from the OP of that exchange a few days later when he informed everyone that Thomann (MT European Super Partner) had recommended Cat7 to him and that IS what he finally bought from them. Imagine that.

I am going into year (I think) six with using Cat7, year four with Cat8, not one issue or problem to report. If it ever happens it will be my cable construction at fault and not the cable itself. Yes I am stubborn. I thought I was wrong once before but as it turned out I was only mistaken. Seriously, I don't think there are too many people around who have done more research, more experimentation and more documentation about the uses of aes50 cables (since maybe 2014/15) than me...now that might indeed make me a bit foolish but not the reported, honest results from those tests.
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Re: AES50 Cables and ESD

Post by Bm7bbm »

The metal does not have any connection which is suspended
(But the metal strap on the other side is grounded)
But in standard STP RJ45 this should be used as a shielded ground point
Therefore, for the general STP RJ45 may have insufficient ground area (high ground resistance)
The solution is to use the shell to expand the ground area


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Last edited by Bm7bbm on Tue Oct 29, 2024 2:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AES50 Cables and ESD

Post by Bm7bbm »

If you have a reliable cable running at hand
And you have the FLUKE network tester
You can try to measure SKEW DELAY
The AES50 transmits SYNC and AUDIO DATA using different line pairs
SYNC Sync with AUDIO DATA is important
I checked the AES50 standard and he didn't talk about SKEW DELAY

To control NEXT up to standard
Generally speaking
SKEW DELAY
CAT5E UTP < CAT6 UTP
S/FTP<S/UTP
S/FTP<UTP
S/UTP=S/UTP

This is a detail worth discussing

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