Wing Rack early observations

[KMaxwell]

Thanks, Kevin, that was interesting to see the many looks and organizations of the console on the screens.

Let me ask my questions in a different way, though, now that the background info is in that other post: How do I recall and store snapshots on an iPad that's using Mixing Station, and see the same stored Snapshots on more than one iPad? I'm not finding that info in any of the Youtube tutorials nor in the Mixing Station documents, although I'm not the best at Searching.

This is trivial on all the X/M32 platforms, but it's not intuitive to me on the Wing.

Thanks!

I am using the android version but I don’t think it is any different.

I will try to explain, if I understand your question, I am doing this offline. Keep in mind certain things won’t show up (like the channel names) in the offline mode because it gets that data only when online with a mixer.

Hit the gear icon on the upper right of the MS screen.

Then hit the folder envelope that shows up on that screen (App Setup).

If nothing is saved yet or you want to add a ?scene hit the + symbol it the upper right of the MS screen. Then enter the name and it will add that to the list of saved.

I hope that helps.

[Dan Mortensen]

Thanks, Kevin, that was interesting to see the many looks and organizations of the console on the screens.

Let me ask my questions in a different way, though, now that the background info is in that other post: How do I recall and store snapshots on an iPad that's using Mixing Station, and see the same stored Snapshots on more than one iPad? I'm not finding that info in any of the Youtube tutorials nor in the Mixing Station documents, although I'm not the best at Searching.

This is trivial on all the X/M32 platforms, but it's not intuitive to me on the Wing.

Thanks!

I am using the android version but I don’t think it is any different.

I will try to explain, if I understand your question, I am doing this offline. Keep in mind certain things won’t show up (like the channel names) in the offline mode because it gets that data only when online with a mixer.

Hit the gear icon on the upper right of the MS screen.

Then hit the folder envelope that shows up on that screen (App Setup).

If nothing is saved yet or you want to add a ?scene hit the + symbol it the upper right of the MS screen. Then enter the name and it will add that to the list of saved.

I hope that helps.

Thanks, @KMaxwell . Another problem I've found (for me at least) is that the Gear Icon means different things in different screens. It took me a heck of a long time to follow the instructions in the MS docs about how to adjust the scale of the viewed items (fonts, boxes, etc.).

There is a gear in the first screen, where you are choosing which mixer you want to connect to. That's the only place where the scale adjustment and some others occur.

Then there's another one in the Home screen, where you're looking at the overview of your mixer's controls.

Without looking at it at the moment, I feel like there's another one, too.

Then there's the three dots in the upper right corner of the screen that does things that I would think would count as Settings.

I will write to the forum; I took @GaryH advice and registered.

My workflow with the X32Racks has been to use multiple iPads to mix a show; a minimum of two, three usually, and sometimes five for really complex shows. I find that format, to be able to reach over and grab something just like an analog console, rather than paging through screens, to be the best use of my time and resources. The FOH teardown is especially pleasing, too.

I'm hoping to continue this with Wings.

I've also found that the Waves iPad app is no better at sharing Snapshots from the Library on the mixer with the Library on the iPad. Unlike the X/M mixers, they seem to occupy two different worlds. Haven't checked the computer app, but I don't want to run a wire to FOH, that's why I'm using the iPads.

@pvannatto Is this something the developers are aware of? It seems like a major hurdle to having a complete ecosystem.

[pvannatto]

Is this something the developers are aware of? It seems like a major hurdle to having a complete ecosystem.

Hey Dan, I'm assuming that you are referring to the inability to access snapshots on a mixing app (eg. Mixing Station) on a tablet (iPad). I think you have encountered the Wing learning curve, similar to what we encountered when we first started using the X32 (many moons ago). The Wing is designed very differently than the X32 (and other digital consoles for that matter). But I can assure you that once you get "over the hump", it will be worth the effort. I can say that because of the response from a collegue of mine, who had borrowed my Wing for about 3 months for a part of a tour with a couple of tribute bands. Averaging 250+ shows per year, he was familiar with many consoles (Digico, SSL, Yamaha, A&H, Midas, etc.), but wanted to try the Wing. His workflow is very different from mine and it took a bit of learning how to adapt his workflow to the Wing. Once he got it, he loved it enough to drive all the way to Sweetwater (from near Niagara Falls, Ontario) to purchase his own Wing after dropping mine off.

That all said, there is a trick to access snapshots, snippets, etc. on external apps (such as Mixing Station, Wing Edit, etc.). You first have to create a show on the console, add the desired snapshots, snippets, clips, and/or presets, and save the show (on the console). Once the show is loaded on the console, everything in that show will be available on all external apps. I've just recently discovered this trick, even though I've been a beta tester since 2019. As I mentioned, it is different than what we are use to on the X32.

Please understand that even though snapshots have been available on the Wing since its beginning, the show control, snippets, etc. are relatively new and are what I would consider in their infancy, with lots of room for refinement and development. Its the same with file management.

Haven't checked the computer app, but I don't want to run a wire to FOH, that's why I'm using the iPads.

You don't have to run a wire. I use Wing Edit on my laptop wirelessly (5Ghz) without any issues. Wing Edit is as closest as you can come to the full Wing surface control. But mixing on multiple tablets will work, particularly with Mixing Station, once you get over the learning curve.

[Dan Mortensen]

Is this something the developers are aware of? It seems like a major hurdle to having a complete ecosystem.

Hey Dan, I'm assuming that you are referring to the inability to access snapshots on a mixing app (eg. Mixing Station) on a tablet (iPad). I think you have encountered the Wing learning curve, similar to what we encountered when we first started using the X32 (many moons ago).

SNIP

That all said, there is a trick to access snapshots, snippets, etc. on external apps (such as Mixing Station, Wing Edit, etc.). You first have to create a show on the console, add the desired snapshots, snippets, clips, and/or presets, and save the show (on the console). Once the show is loaded on the console, everything in that show will be available on all external apps. I've just recently discovered this trick, even though I've been a beta tester since 2019. As I mentioned, it is different than what we are use to on the X32.

Thank you @pvannatto!!!!

That works just fine! And on both MS and Wing Copilot!

Much more useful.

Yes, I agree that I'm still on the steep part of the learning curve, but am really seeing that the features of the thing will make my life and work a lot more interesting as well (hopefully, based on what you and others have written here) as sounding better.

I am blessedly in the middle of a break in gigs that's allowing me to pursue projects like this without an immediate deadline to use it for real. At this point in my understanding, the Library thing was a deal breaker; now that you've solved that, I can keep delving into the nuances.

One more, after messing around with it a little: How do I SAVE snapshots to a show on the iPad? That is not obvious, either.

You say that "Show" is a recent presence on the console. Is the idea of saving from a tablet also something they wouldn't have thought was necessary, just like "Show"? Remarkable, if so.

Thanks again!

[pvannatto]

How do I SAVE snapshots to a show on the iPad? That is not obvious, either.

That is something you would need to ask David Schumann. I don't save in Mixing Station, just on the console. Looking at the scene section of Mixing Station, I'm not sure if it is possible with the current version.

Is the idea of saving from a tablet also something they wouldn't have thought was necessary, just like "Show"?

Saving settings is not particularly a mixing function. So a mixing app developer would probably not consider a priority. That said, David has added saving in Mixing Station on X32. He might possibly add it for the Wing in his app.

[RJH_MUSIC]

I am new to the Wing family of mixers and finding a bit of a learning curve. Most likely because I am stubborn, no that is the wrong word. Stuck in the past would be more appropriate. Before I ask this question, I totally admit that I am not using my brand new Wing console to its fullest potential, because I am stuck in the old world where every channel needs an input. At 48, I am short bout 8 stereo channels. of course I could just assign sources to channels and swap things around and save different configurations, where the Wing shines, but still Old fashioned and don't want to waste time with setup whe. Inspiration hits. I thought I could assign an input source directly to a bus channel which would do the trick, but ino on the web that indicates this can be done seems incorrect. When you select a bus, you only have the choice to assign channels to it, not sources. So, I thought I would purchase a Wing compact and put it right next to the Wing for one big desk. Also learned on the web that by linking both together, I can get 96 input and output channels. But I am weary of that statement as well. I can do what I want by just using the Wing Compact stand alone and physically connecting the main outs to 2 input channelsnof the Wing. Before I ask anyone to opine on whether or not you get 96 separate channels by linking the 2 together, I have one last hurdle. In reading the Specs for both models, it appears that the Wing Compact is 1 inch higher in the back than the Wing.... UGH! What gives! Either this is a misprint or why the heck would Berhinger do that, unless it is because of heat. So that means if I want to put them side by side, almost kissing the result would not look like 1 handsome console. But that means I either have to jack up the Wing to match the height of the Compact, or take the feet off the Compact and hope it is close enough. Can anyone tell if they have both next to each other and how do they look, or maybe a misprint on Berhingers part again. I will also say this, after following noise problems for years using analog consoles and even the Yamaha PM5D digital mixer, replacing with the Wing blew me away when I first something come out of it. I thought I hooked something up wrong because I couldn't hear anything, until I played a c major chord on my synth and wow. Absolutely pristine audio. No hiss, no growl, no hum, , nothing but pure sound. I only wish i bought one years ago. I think it is worth every penny paid for it and then some. I made my first mix and sent it to a buddy who is a Radio Station producer, and he asked me what recording studio I used for the production.,,,, I said I didn't go to one. I used my new Wing Console. KUDOS to Berhinger except for the 1 inch hint if it turns out to be true.

Eagerly waiting a response

RJ

[pvannatto]

I am stuck in the old world where every channel needs an input.

Why is that necessary? With a digital console, you only need to use channel strips for a particular setup or band. Each setup can be saved as a snapshot to be reloaded when necessary. Even Noah moved things around in his Arc.

still Old fashioned and don't want to waste time with setup

I wouldn't call that old fashion. My ancestors worked far harder than I ever have. Since I do mostly live events, the setup and teardown are considered part of the experience.

I thought I could assign an input source directly to a bus channel

That is not possible. The Wing is a 48 channel (40 full processing and 8 limited processing) strip console. It is not possible to expand a Wing console any further.

[Dan Mortensen]

Hi RJ,

Adding a little (maybe) to Paul's reply:

I am also on the learning curve, as you may have read, but in reading your post, I'm wondering how you are getting the inputs into the console? Are you only using what's on the console or are you using things like the S32 or DL-32 (think that's the number, the Midas one)?

I am stuck in the old world where every channel needs an input. At 48, I am short bout 8 stereo channels

I put a quote in from you since you say "every channel needs an input". In this console, every channel can take TWO inputs.

So if you are currently using two inputs on the console to achieve your stereo inputs and running out of input connectors but not channels, you can get more connectors by adding one or more stage boxes (S/DL or whatever) and get up to 96 inputs going to up to 48 stereo channels.

Does that help any, or am I muddying the waters?

[RJH_MUSIC]

Thanks Dan. Yes, using 3 S32 stage boxes, plus console connections dedicated to recording gear, CD Burner, DAT and.. yes Cassette. Yeah I actually did say Cassette, but that is just for playback.... lol

Yes, that is exactly what I meant about stuck in the old world. For years, as you bought additional gear you also needed to upgrade ir expand you mixer to accommodate all the inputs. As a keyboardist, every piece of gear needed 2 inputs for stereo. I love the fact that the Wing has stereo channels, so you don't need 12 channel faders for 6 pieces of gear. The real problem lies in the fact that I am a holder of gear... lol. For example, in 1989 I bought my first multi timbral synth module for just under $900. In the next two years, I bought 2 more at roughly $1,100 a piece. Today, all 3 aren't worth more than $300 total. So for me, they are worth more keeping than getting rid of.. and, they still work. So in the end, I have all the sources I need, but not enough channels. I will have to master multiple snapshots and save for quick recall. I just have to get out of the habit of permanently assigning sources to channels. I need to step out of the old world and use the Wing as it was designed to be used, which in my opinion is nothing short of genius. And... I hate to admit it, but I really need to start selling off some older gear. Especially since there are VSTi emulations of that very gear.

I know I am getting off on a tangent but even though a lot of VSTi makers claim there software are exact duplicates of the original hardware, they are not. For example, the second module I bought back in 1989 was the Korg M3r. Then bought pretty much all of the sound cards made for it. Today, I also have the M1 VSTi from korg, includes the entire card library. But the program cards for the M1 were not the same when used in the M3r. For the M1 you get 49 programs and for the M3r you get 99. So with the hardware and all the data cards, I have roughly 600 more patches.

[Dan Mortensen]

Thanks for the elaboration.

So you have more than 48 stereo sources? Going to be hard to find a single mixer at this price point that will handle more than 48 stereo.

FWIW MJK has a post in another thread that has a good price on the black full size Wing, and an even better price on the silver one, possibly only if you're in the proper country (tariff impact potentially).

Good luck to both of us figuring this console out!