Thanks in advance
Dave
Be Prepared
Be Prepared
Sorry team, I have 2x DP48 out for delivery about 15 stops away from me -- be prepared for plenty of questions
Thanks in advance
Dave
Thanks in advance
Dave
Re: Be Prepared
So they have arrived!!!! cool!!! one thing that has pissed me off though (excuse the language please) -- Thomann have sent me the units with Midas European adapters, then included convertors..... the adaptors do not sit very well in them to convert to UK Style 3 pin mains plugs. I see the official Midas PSU has removable slide plates for obviously swapping the input pins for different countries, but they haven't included any optional plates ... Does anyone know where I can get two UK plates for the adapters ?
Many Thanks
Dave
Many Thanks
Dave
Re: Be Prepared
I have submitted a Midas ticket. Wish me luck. Have asked why their distributor hasn't supplied the correct PSU plates for the country it was intended for. Thomann in all fairness supplied converters but they are rubbish and an easy fail point which is no good for live use as they are very very loose. lets see if they have replacement plates for the PSU to allow me to plug it direct into a UK 13 amp 3 pin socket. Seems strange supplying a worldwide adapter, but not including the worldwide fitting to allow it to be used easily etc
Re: Be Prepared
Hey @DaveT, I can feel for you. As a beta tester, I received 4 DP48 in June 2019 from the Germany office. The DP48 adapters had the European plugs, which are useless here in Canada and the only adapters I could find were flakey (at best). I ended up printing off my own adapter housing and used the metal blades (from the junk adapters) and some female pins (that fit the internal pins of the DP48 adapter) to make my own adapters. Hopefully Music-Tribe will send you the correct adapters.
I also got 2 Hub4 for testing, which do provide POE for the DP48. Unfortunately these were preproduction model. One of the power supplies died and I had to send it back to Germany. The other one became useless when I tried to update the firmware, and due to an old bootloader, it has become a big paperweight. Fortunately the Canadian super-partner (finally) had a Hub4 in stock and it arrived here today. I'll be using it with the DP48's this weekend.
I also got 2 Hub4 for testing, which do provide POE for the DP48. Unfortunately these were preproduction model. One of the power supplies died and I had to send it back to Germany. The other one became useless when I tried to update the firmware, and due to an old bootloader, it has become a big paperweight. Fortunately the Canadian super-partner (finally) had a Hub4 in stock and it arrived here today. I'll be using it with the DP48's this weekend.
Paul Vannatto
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Re: Be Prepared
Thanks Paul for that , yeah its strange why they don't provide the other sockets for an international PSU with the unit when it has the obvious ability to swap mains input connectors for the country that is needed. important for touring bands!!!!.
lets see what they respond with, and lets hope the new units are more resilient than your test units.
its a lot of money for what it is , but were paying for the Midas name, so lets hope it still stands up to its historic name!!
lets see what they respond with, and lets hope the new units are more resilient than your test units.
its a lot of money for what it is , but were paying for the Midas name, so lets hope it still stands up to its historic name!!
Re: Be Prepared
POE is the only way to go anyway IMO. We did a LOT of testing with these early on and there are quite a few options besides the Hub4 to power them, The Hub is a great thing-and does much more than add power- however pretty expensive and for a VERY long time, not available in the US or anywhere. I'll look for the thread in the "other" forum.This is not to say you shouldn't have a proper power supply included because you should BUT these wall wort things (even well made ones that fit like the ones that came with mine) are a pain to use live. Too many plugs too many wires. POE, and one cat cable is a much better option. Hub4 yes if you have it (I do now own one) but there are several options to power them via POE that are available out there.
Re: Be Prepared
Seems POE isnt available on the wing 
However, what I did do, was purchase some other 24v DC units with the uk 3 pin plugs on them and im using them instead. Today I noticed my Flow 8 has the EXACT same adapter for its power (albeit 5v instead of 24v), BUT has the exact same shoe plate for the mains plugs. My 13amp uk 3 pin plate slid off the flow one and right onto the Midas one!!!!. looks like I may end up purchasing a couple of flow adapters just to get the 3 pin shoe off them so I can back to the official Midas PSU for the DP48s. Midas were zero help, telling me that Thomann is one of their "superior distributors" and it was up to them to sort it out, so I asked about Midas selling me the plates and they said they don't sell them, and once again to contact Thomann as they should have sent them out with UK plugs. About 5 emails to and from Thomann and they basically said tough!!! they were not going to swap them out as they had provided convertors. I don't think the were very happy when I then told them to just cancel the rest of my split order (was waiting an out of stock DL32, SD8, a 6u rack case and a few other pieces), have went else where and told them I won't shop with them again.
However, what I did do, was purchase some other 24v DC units with the uk 3 pin plugs on them and im using them instead. Today I noticed my Flow 8 has the EXACT same adapter for its power (albeit 5v instead of 24v), BUT has the exact same shoe plate for the mains plugs. My 13amp uk 3 pin plate slid off the flow one and right onto the Midas one!!!!. looks like I may end up purchasing a couple of flow adapters just to get the 3 pin shoe off them so I can back to the official Midas PSU for the DP48s. Midas were zero help, telling me that Thomann is one of their "superior distributors" and it was up to them to sort it out, so I asked about Midas selling me the plates and they said they don't sell them, and once again to contact Thomann as they should have sent them out with UK plugs. About 5 emails to and from Thomann and they basically said tough!!! they were not going to swap them out as they had provided convertors. I don't think the were very happy when I then told them to just cancel the rest of my split order (was waiting an out of stock DL32, SD8, a 6u rack case and a few other pieces), have went else where and told them I won't shop with them again.Re: Be Prepared
Wow! What a way to keep a happy customer, eh @DaveT? You know, if I had a UK adapter (or a few of them), I could design the housing and 3D print them and send them to you. Let me look around and see if I have any.
And yes POE is not standard AES50 in the X32/M32/Wing. Only the Hub4 has POE.
And yes POE is not standard AES50 in the X32/M32/Wing. Only the Hub4 has POE.
Paul Vannatto
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Re: Be Prepared
@DaveT Glad you found an acceptable solution. Fwiw, POE has nothing to do with the Wing itself. Power is added via an appropriate POE injector device after the cable leaves the Wing (or X/M32) aes50 port. Or at the far end prior to connecting to the DP48 or similar device. It works on a Wing no problem. The Hub4 has POE built in its feature set and supplies power to the DP48 the same way. POE injectors that can supply the correct voltage are about 1/10 or more (maybe 1/20th) of the cost of a Hub4 but only supply power to the ethernet cable, no other cool bells and whistles. If you don’t like wall worts (I really don’t) it’s an alternative though. The other plus is they can supply the power over very long distance (80-100M)
EDIT: I found a summary update I saved. A few of the links may be no longer available:
DP48 POE power supplies and injectors summary updated 041621
Link for for some background info on power ranges (and much more).
https://pinoutguide.com/Net/poe_pinout.shtml
Original MT forum post link
https://community.musictribe.com/discus ... ors-update
I tried to simplify everything below from my original post from May/Aug 2020
Update Jan 2021
Device 1
For use with inexpensive power/data splitters like:
Device 2
These will work with a DP48 by using the powered device (1) for the power source for the injector. These are VERY handy because they are compact and they plug into any outlet directly. Connect the power out section to the injector device (2) then connect your aes50 data cable to the injector, POE out port from the injector can now power the dp48, data cable from elsewhere (like a mixer aes50 port or second DP48 thru port) provides the data. Adding more DP48's up to Ia fairly high number (guessing 7+ like the P16's but I am not 100% sure of just how many exactly) You would need one of each for each DP48 line.
Device 3
Works perfectly fine for both power and data, best used for a single DP48
Device 4
**The “switch” part WILL NOT WORK for DP48’s, the power supply that comes with it WILL work as a power source for other injectors that do work.
Worth considering IMO for the power supply part ONLY. The price is fair enough just to use for power and store the other pieces for another day or use for other network applications besides aes50. Again the other parts DO NOT work for DP48’s. I originally was going to return it but kept it just for the power supply part itself.
*** POE SWITCHES do not work AT ALL for passing AES50 data*** (thanks to Rex Beckett for confirming this)
Passive Injectors:
Device 4
It's a small passive device and works perfectly with the correct power supply, (wide ranges supported!) it comes without any power supply but works with the ones mentioned above or similar. *These will also work with a 12V power supply for P16M’s
There are several other injector choices out there (and splitters) that supply power using 10/100 (no data on pins 4,5, 7 or 8) which will work for Ultranet (P16) devices ok but NOT DP48's. Important note for P16M: ONLY use a 12V dc power supply for P16 use!!! P16 is in one directional only. The ultranet appears to apply to only pins 1,2,3 and 6 OR it at least does NOT use pin 4,5,7 and 8 for P16 data.
Best POWER adaptor imo:
Device 5
EDIT: this is now out of stock, the one below (same maker) is better, has more power and is cheaper!
My injector of choice, 8 port:
Device 6
Summary: You need a power supply that provides at least 48v dc. The Midas Hub sends 52w. I suspect a range of 48-60v is fine. 48v worked for me as did 60, 54 and 51v. The injector needs to be Mode B (positive power to pins 4 and 5, negative power to pins 7 and 8) and passive. Use the 802.3at spec (capable of providing higher power). For AES50 the injector needs to have all pairs "in" connected to all pairs "out" such that both data AND power are shared on pins 4,5,7 and 8.
AES50 and DP48's need all 4 twisted wire pairs connected in to the identical 4 pairs out to work properly, this so data can pass in both directions (48x48) providing AES50 “sync”
***POE Network SWITCHES do not work, you need passive INJECTORS***
Thanks also to Josh Gibson for the following 2 additional choices!
Device 7 (Great price)
Device 8
Device 9 (new as of Feb 2021) (Also Great price)
(Cudy models 150, 200 and 300 ALL work to pass both power and data for aes50 applications.) These are better suited for single DP48 use. (That is one for each AES50 line and DP48
This info is correct to the best of my knowledge, although anyone who chooses to use any of it should do so completely at their own risk. Correctly described and explained or not, the above devices worked or did not work for me as stated. All of which (except Device 8) I own or did own briefly to test. I origanally used these because the Hub4 was not available in the US for nearly a year. I now own a Hub as well.
EDIT: I found a summary update I saved. A few of the links may be no longer available:
DP48 POE power supplies and injectors summary updated 041621
Link for for some background info on power ranges (and much more).
https://pinoutguide.com/Net/poe_pinout.shtml
Original MT forum post link
https://community.musictribe.com/discus ... ors-update
I tried to simplify everything below from my original post from May/Aug 2020
Update Jan 2021
Device 1
For use with inexpensive power/data splitters like:
Device 2
These will work with a DP48 by using the powered device (1) for the power source for the injector. These are VERY handy because they are compact and they plug into any outlet directly. Connect the power out section to the injector device (2) then connect your aes50 data cable to the injector, POE out port from the injector can now power the dp48, data cable from elsewhere (like a mixer aes50 port or second DP48 thru port) provides the data. Adding more DP48's up to Ia fairly high number (guessing 7+ like the P16's but I am not 100% sure of just how many exactly) You would need one of each for each DP48 line.
Device 3
Works perfectly fine for both power and data, best used for a single DP48
Device 4
**The “switch” part WILL NOT WORK for DP48’s, the power supply that comes with it WILL work as a power source for other injectors that do work.
Worth considering IMO for the power supply part ONLY. The price is fair enough just to use for power and store the other pieces for another day or use for other network applications besides aes50. Again the other parts DO NOT work for DP48’s. I originally was going to return it but kept it just for the power supply part itself.
*** POE SWITCHES do not work AT ALL for passing AES50 data*** (thanks to Rex Beckett for confirming this)
Passive Injectors:
Device 4
It's a small passive device and works perfectly with the correct power supply, (wide ranges supported!) it comes without any power supply but works with the ones mentioned above or similar. *These will also work with a 12V power supply for P16M’s
There are several other injector choices out there (and splitters) that supply power using 10/100 (no data on pins 4,5, 7 or 8) which will work for Ultranet (P16) devices ok but NOT DP48's. Important note for P16M: ONLY use a 12V dc power supply for P16 use!!! P16 is in one directional only. The ultranet appears to apply to only pins 1,2,3 and 6 OR it at least does NOT use pin 4,5,7 and 8 for P16 data.
Best POWER adaptor imo:
Device 5
EDIT: this is now out of stock, the one below (same maker) is better, has more power and is cheaper!
My injector of choice, 8 port:
Device 6
Summary: You need a power supply that provides at least 48v dc. The Midas Hub sends 52w. I suspect a range of 48-60v is fine. 48v worked for me as did 60, 54 and 51v. The injector needs to be Mode B (positive power to pins 4 and 5, negative power to pins 7 and 8) and passive. Use the 802.3at spec (capable of providing higher power). For AES50 the injector needs to have all pairs "in" connected to all pairs "out" such that both data AND power are shared on pins 4,5,7 and 8.
AES50 and DP48's need all 4 twisted wire pairs connected in to the identical 4 pairs out to work properly, this so data can pass in both directions (48x48) providing AES50 “sync”
***POE Network SWITCHES do not work, you need passive INJECTORS***
Thanks also to Josh Gibson for the following 2 additional choices!
Device 7 (Great price)
Device 8
Device 9 (new as of Feb 2021) (Also Great price)
(Cudy models 150, 200 and 300 ALL work to pass both power and data for aes50 applications.) These are better suited for single DP48 use. (That is one for each AES50 line and DP48
This info is correct to the best of my knowledge, although anyone who chooses to use any of it should do so completely at their own risk. Correctly described and explained or not, the above devices worked or did not work for me as stated. All of which (except Device 8) I own or did own briefly to test. I origanally used these because the Hub4 was not available in the US for nearly a year. I now own a Hub as well.
Re: Be Prepared
Thanks for all the info guys. It really is a appreciated and will be something I will look at and probably go ahead and implement. don't fancy the extra work of running power on stage just for the DP48s. currently the new adaptors I bought are powering the DP48s just fine and have got rid of the major ball ache that was the Thomann supplied convertors that are a significant fail point and size etc. the DP48s were supplied knowing fine well they were coming to the UK and should have been supplied with the correct adaptor plates. Just got tired of going round and round in circles getting Midas and Thomann not admitting it was their issues and continually passing the buck, hence why I purchased a couple of uk adapters (think they were about £9 each), so not a major expense, but if I can inject the POE from the rack to the AES cables going to the DP48s then that will be an over all better solution in the long run. The power source can be left in the racks all prewired.
Thanks again for all the help
Dave
Thanks again for all the help
Dave