Wing Dante Studio

[MJKlein]

@GaryH you've done a massive amount of work documenting things about Wing + Dante that we would never have known otherwise. Thank you for that man [fistbump].

When I visited Patrick @pmaillot I got the rundown on the Wing from The Man himself and now I am strongly considering upgrading to the Wing. I need to verify some facts so I can make an informed decision regarding this proposed upgrade.

Unpacking all the information in the various threads in this Dante Networking forum and digesting them is rather daunting so I want to just ask some questions in this thread and see if I can get the answers pre-boiled down, if you will.

This thread is about using the Wing exclusively as a studio mixer and nothing whatsoever about live show mixing.

The information from Behringer about the channels and inputs into the Wing is so confusing that it looks almost the same as the X32 except for the number of buses and the fact that the channels are stereo. Considering the stereo nature of the Wing, I want to talk about mixing tracks from Reaper as stereo tracks only. A single Wing channel would require 2 Dante channels as Dante channels are mono. So I understand that the maximum number of stereo tracks possible would be a number representing 1/2 the number of Dante channels the console can process.

I realize that the answer to these 2 questions might not be so simple. My understanding is that the Wing can mix 48 stereo tracks via Dante from the DAW, thus requiring 96 channels of Dante Audio Networking. That might not be accurate.

Here are the questions:

1. What is the absolute limit of Dante channels that the Wing can process for mixing?

2. What does it take to achieve that maximum number of Dante channels referred to in Question 1 (i.e. how many Brooklyn cards and each card's channel count)?

In view of the foregoing questions I am looking for specific recommendations to maximize my stereo track count for mixing.

Thank you.

[GaryH]

@MJKlein Let me first say after 3 years I am still not fully appreciative of the stereo ch concept. Old brain slowly processing. So someone else here (Paul/Patrick?) can better explain the praises and virtues of stereo ch’s. Its safe to say setting up a stereo ch is not an area I am particularly fluid with. I guess in your use case having 48 possible stereo ch’s might make more sense. I have seldom set a Wing mixer ch as stereo, I almost always use them as mono. Each MIXER ch has the option of being Mono, Stereo or Mid/Side. So…I think:

#1 the answer would be 96 Dante ch’s max with each mixer ch using 2 of them. 48 stereo ch’s. The mixer can access something like 374 possible inputs (I think) but still can only mix 48 ch’s mono/stereo at one time.

#2 There are 2 possible places to put Brooklyn II cards, one internal and one external so two 64 ch Dante cards for a total of 128 Dante ch’s of which a combo of them to reach the maximum mixable number could be used. I think also that the stereo part has to be from the same source menu and consecutive ch's of that source group (I could be wrong). So I don't think you can split from 2 different Dante cards inputs as a single stereo ch. So routing wise that would need some consideration. IMO all this still has its real life application limitations, not in # of choices but of what one might really need to use.

Dante Controller is where the subscriptions (sources to destinations) from device to device is made. Because of DC doing it’s part I think Dante ch’s 1 and 2 (Wing ch 1 set as stereo sourced by say int Dante 1/2) could be one very wild and strange combo. I think it’s safe to say the options are truly immense but the real life application of them probably way more straight forward. Then there’s that super duper Dante Card you have in your computer! You may not emerge from your studio for years and it might take a few years to figure how to rout it all

[pmaillot]

@GaryH Yes, 48 stereo channels to mix with (some would argue more by playing tricks with FX paths etc. but I'll stick to 48), and 374 sources to select from.

>> I think also that the stereo part has to be from the same source menu and consecutive ch's of that source group (I could be wrong) <<

Actually the upcoming release of FW will re-install a feature that was lost at some time before 1.13.9, with the user signals enabling you to set a user path with left and right coming from different sources pools; e.i. two different Dante cards for example; An then you select that 'custom' path as your ch strip source.


@MJKlein The above will for sure keep you deep in your studio for years... lost in routing [and not "Lost In Translation", 'cause there's no user documentation ]

-Patrick

[MJKlein]

Then there’s that super duper Dante Card you have in your computer!

Thanks for the detailed explanation Gary. It looks like my super duper Dante Card has a 128 channel limitation though, so I may be looking at upgrading that too! It never ends....

[MJKlein]

@MJKlein The above will for sure keep you deep in your studio for years... lost in routing [and not "Lost In Translation", 'cause there's no user documentation ]

I'm sooooooo fortunate that we don't have to communicate in French on top of my trying to understand everything!

[MJKlein]

So, the take home is pretty much 48 stereo tracks from 98 channels that could be comprised of sources from Dante cards, local inputs and AES 50 (like from the X32). I'll need 2 Dante cards for that and the combination of cards may give me more Dante channels than I can use.

Thanks!

[GaryH]

@MJKlein Your limit for the Wing will be the Wing Dante cards (2 x 64), 128 on the pc is just right to populate 64 internal + 64 external. If you use the X-Dante too then you will have to pick which are used, 96 from the pc card and 32 from X-Dante or whatever combo, depending on what other Dante devices to pick and choose from as the available sources. And of that, 48 stereo to mix. I have now many other devices besides the 2 Wing Dante cards. New is the Yamaha stuff. I have to say with somewhat limited experience yet with the new toys-it is amazingly cool to have Yamaha equipment, A Midas M32 with DL stagebox and the Behringer Wing....with several other various manufacturer modules too, and have them all dance politely with one another. All because they each speak Dante. Dante doesn't care who you are and where you came from nor the color of your stage rack. I am still absorbing and learning. Keeps me going. Probably put the SD Card back in soon. I don't have need for 128 Dante ch's to be completely honest but it is fun to play around with.

[MJKlein]

I intend to use the Ghost on Dante too so I'll have to update that PCI-e card. I also have outboard compressors and EQs. It never ends.

[GaryH]

@MJKlein Something kind of appealing to "it never ends" I enjoy the challenges and excitement of getting and learning new stuff. Don't want it to end Have fun with it all!

[MJKlein]

@garyh I just want to make sure that I'm don't end my marriage in the process!

I've been enjoying this thread while sipping a cafe latte in the most "Paris" coffee cup I've ever seen:



Bought on the 2nd floor of the Eiffel Tower (I live streamed from there just before), I got both black and white colors.

Patrick and his elegant and extremely knowledgeable wife, Patricia, took us to a local syrup factory where we bought a variety of famous French syrups. My coffee has a small shot of the Irish Cream syrup and it is off-the-charts delicious, thanks to their guidance. I don't really even feel like I'm back in Taiwan yet.