1.13.7 Firmware and old FX/CH presets

[Knee_Deep_in_Audio]

Hi all, first post. Thank you to everyone who created and maintains this forum, the official one is a mess.. I just posted this over in the official forum, but this is time sensitive and it seems like it's easy for posts to get lost in the official forum. Sorry if it is frowned upon to post here without waiting for an answer on the official forum first.

I'm the head of audio at a theater in NYC, and tomorrow I'm planning on updating our WING with the new firmware (1.13.7). I was reading through the release notes tonight and noticed:

NOTE: Fw 1.13 currently cannot load old channel, FX and routing presets. This will be implemented again with the next versions.

That note leaves me with more questions than answers, and it caught me off guard because after waiting for so long for an update I wasn't expecting features to be killed, even if just temporally. So, I'm hoping that someone here can answer at least one of my questions about this:

1) It's not clear to me if they took away the functionality to save CH, FX, and Routing presets completely, or if it just isn't able to load old ones.

Would someone here who has already installed the new firmware mind checking if you can save new ch/fx/routing presets?

I would greatly appreciate it.

If new presets can be saved, then before I upgrade I can save all my presets in a new snapshot, upgrade the firmware, load the snap, and re-save all my presets. Not looking forward to having to do that, but better than losing them all.

If the ability to save ch/fx/routing presets has been removed completely, then that won't work obviously.

2) Has anyone heard of an approximate time table for the next update that will restore the ability to load old channel and FX presets?
I know the chances of anyone knowing the answer to this is very low, but it doesn't hurt to ask, right?


We do a lot of one-off and short run events, so we use the CH and FX presets a lot. Losing them all would not be great. I know some people's first reaction might be "why don't I just not do this upgrade." The reason is there are other things in this upgrade that are must haves that we have been waiting a long time for (scenes! finally! - also a few other things), so as much as it would suck to lose our presets, the pros outweigh the cons here, so the upgrade is going to happen. I'm just trying figure out how bad the collateral damage will be.

Thanks!

[GaryH]

@Knee_Deep_in_Audio Maybe this will help. Make sure you scroll dowm, lots of info there. I think due to HOW they implement the new features the old preset structure wont work. Sounds like you will need to make new ones. That said I t appears to me to me the whole idea is to make presets more powerful and useful than ever with the next release, second quarter of 2023.

[Alttöpfer]

I will not update until I can load my old presets to the console and the editor and also save new ones to both.

[Knee_Deep_in_Audio]

@Knee_Deep_in_Audio Maybe this will help. Make sure you scroll dowm, lots of info there. I think due to HOW they implement the new features the old preset structure wont work. Sounds like you will need to make new ones. That said I t appears to me to me the whole idea is to make presets more powerful and useful than ever with the next release, second quarter of 2023.

Thanks Gary. I've seen that document before, I'm really looking forward to the new show management system!

I just re-read the doc, sorry if I missed it, but that doc doesn't talk about presets, right?

[thomas]

I see no option to save channel preset in new FW, nor load it. It is quite a big issue for me.

You can do partial save and load of snapshots, but it is not the same thing.

[pvannatto]

the official one is a mess.

Welcome to our forum. We are all aware of how messed up that forum is. That is one of the reasons why we started this one.

It's not clear to me if they took away the functionality to save CH, FX, and Routing presets completely, or if it just isn't able to load old ones.

It isn't a matter of removing the functionality. Rather it is a result of a major re-org of the data structure. They moved the location of the snapshots and presets to another internal set of folders in order to prepare for the new (and coming) show control. Unfortunately the developers were unable to re-code the preset functionality for the new structure in time for this firmware release. The whole new show control is now the priority for the developers and I'm hoping it will come soon (can't wait for snippet functionality). As I mentioned before, if you rely on presets for your workflow, do not upgrade at this point. They will be coming - no ETA at this point.

[Knee_Deep_in_Audio]

I see no option to save channel preset in new FW, nor load it. It is quite a big issue for me.

You can do partial save and load of snapshots, but it is not the same thing.

Thanks for checking! That is really disappointing.


Thanks pvannatto for all the work you do here and for the quick answer!

The whole new show control is now the priority for the developers and I'm hoping it will come soon

I thought this update brought show control? What is missing besides snippets (which is a big one, I'm also eagerly waiting for snippets)?


In the release notes/GUI supporting doc I appreciated the screenshots and deep dive about a few features, but overall both docs are frustratingly vague about a lot of changes. Even show control, which they go into detail about, seems to be misrepresented - those docs give the impression this update brings a completed show control management system. I didn't realize it wasn't complete.

EDIT:

As I mentioned before, if you rely on presets for your workflow, do not upgrade at this point.

One of our biggest issues with the WING have been tablet remote control dropouts. Our board is unfortunately in the projection booth (a decision out of my control), we bring it in to the house when we do big events and concerts, but for small events we do a lot of tablet mixing. We have tried many things to fix dropouts, (trying different routers, different apps, we even got out our IT dept involved).

The release notes say there are two bug fixes related to remote control dropouts. If this update can reduce dropouts then it is our #1 priority and we're going to update even if we lose presets.

I originally asked asked some questions about dropout improvements, but I should have started a seperate post to keep this thread on topic about presets. Sorry about that, here is the post with my questions about dropout improvements.

[DaveT]

Go back to old firmware, save everything, load your channel presets and fx etc etc to some spare channels. Load the new firmware, and save the fx and channel presets in the new format as they will be on actual channels etc when you upgrade. once saved, go back to the old firmware, and re load your old scene etc back in. Now upgrade back to the new firmware. The result is that you will have all your saved presets etc now in the new format, and all your old setup ready to go. This is what I had to do, and worked for me

[Knee_Deep_in_Audio]

Just to be clear, I haven't upgraded yet.

But if in understanding you correctly, there is still a ch and fx preset system in the new firmware?
(It's just incompatible with the old presets)

If that's the case, then yeah I can save my presets into a snapshot before I upgrade and use that snapshot to recreate presets after I upgrade.

Would someone mind uploading a picture of the WING display after opening the "library" folder on the new firmware?

There are conflicting reports in the thread about what the ch/fx presets capabilities of the new firmware are, maybe if I see a picture it will be more clear.

[pvannatto]

I thought this update brought show control? What is missing besides snippets (which is a big one, I'm also eagerly waiting for snippets)?

This is just the beginning of the show control development. At this point, snippets and presets come to mind that are missing.

overall both docs are frustratingly vague about a lot of changes.

probably because everything is in its early stage of development. One thing you can do is make suggestions as to what you want/need in this show control.

The release notes say there are two bug fixes related to remote control dropouts.

During the beta testing, there were reports of dropouts outside of the realm of wifi interference, etc. (eg. connected via ethernet cable). Issues with the TCP were discovered and fixed in the firmware, which has made the connection more reliable. I have my Wing in the back room (of my house) and I typically sit in the front room. Occasionally I would get dropouts while testing the Wing Edit. My home network is a bit convoluted with a central router and a few switches and I thought I might have a bad ethernet connection. Since the firmware fix, I'm no longer getting the disconnect/reconnect.