I could but my crimp tool doesn't do shields. Instead I ordered some replacement cables that have stepped RJ45s.
AES50 Cables and ESD
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RexBeckett
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Re: AES50 Cables and ESD
I did buy a short piece of that Empanar brand flat cable to fool with. It’s clearly nicer than any other flat cable I own. It is even better than I thought it could be and I thought it could be very good. I trimmed the rj45's and placed ethercons on them and tested it-all working just fine! It took more trimming than I thought based on looking at the amazon pictures BUT the PVC jacket is so supple and pliable, it was very easy to trim. It is also a bit wider than other flat cable I own so it definitely requires the flanged parts style of the ethercon to fit, even at that it is a bit tight but not too tight. The stepped rj45's fit perfectly in the Ethercon. All in all it is extremely flexible and has a very nice, high quality feel to it.
Not satisfied to have it work with the stock rj45's it came with I cut them off. I expect to buy at least some longer version of it and need to see how they might terminate using pass through connectors should I ever want to cut some up for shorter runs. It was easy to get apart. The ground wire runs right in with the (wrapped in foil) Brown/White brown data pair as opposed to running along separately on its own. Unusual but this actually made things easier! A careful 2 inch cut along its end lengths allowed the PVC cover to be spread, pulled away and cut off. Individually foil wrapped pairs then also came away easily. Unwrapping the foil is still a pita and tedious but easy enough and easier than with many other flat cables. They terminated fairly easily also. It is now fully tested and working fine with ethercons.
I’ve long since not needed ANY extra cable for my system but I am in constant search for improved options. This is most definitely a first line contender! (After doing this I did order the 150 foot version!)
Not satisfied to have it work with the stock rj45's it came with I cut them off. I expect to buy at least some longer version of it and need to see how they might terminate using pass through connectors should I ever want to cut some up for shorter runs. It was easy to get apart. The ground wire runs right in with the (wrapped in foil) Brown/White brown data pair as opposed to running along separately on its own. Unusual but this actually made things easier! A careful 2 inch cut along its end lengths allowed the PVC cover to be spread, pulled away and cut off. Individually foil wrapped pairs then also came away easily. Unwrapping the foil is still a pita and tedious but easy enough and easier than with many other flat cables. They terminated fairly easily also. It is now fully tested and working fine with ethercons.
I’ve long since not needed ANY extra cable for my system but I am in constant search for improved options. This is most definitely a first line contender! (After doing this I did order the 150 foot version!)
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RexBeckett
- Posts: 122
- Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:52 am
- Location: Bedford, UK
Re: AES50 Cables and ESD
The Empanar cables sound good, @GaryH . They're currently unavailable on Amazon UK but I'll keep watch. Now if you had a fancy Ethernet Certifying Tester, you could find out if changing the RJ45s made the performance better or worse. 
Re: AES50 Cables and ESD
I know! @RexBeckett I can’t really justify the expense though, if I were selling cable as a side business, then I would not hesitate. My testing is with a good (but common) cat cable tester and then the MT all green led’s with my mixer/stagebox 
I may now know a person with one and will beg to use it. I must say I am curious. Waiting on Dan’s pending Cat7 tests, I have his test cable so some of mine may be covered by his results.
I may now know a person with one and will beg to use it. I must say I am curious. Waiting on Dan’s pending Cat7 tests, I have his test cable so some of mine may be covered by his results.-
Dan Mortensen
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:43 pm
Re: AES50 Cables and ESD
I did get some time yesterday to open the CAT7 cables and connect them together and measure them. The two testers I have are described and linked to in this thread on this forum. Both testers only test as high as CAT6, which I believe is enough for our purposes with our existing consoles.
First, the cable seems nicely made and rugged. I did not disassemble anything but have no doubt it is made as they say.
Testing each of the three cables I bought, which are all nominally 200', they easily passed spec on both testers. And I should say up front that the testers largely agreed, although the Byte Brothers lets the user spec if the cable is used for Patch or for Trunk (not sure if that's the term, the tester says "Solid" as differentiated from "Patch" which are expected to be stranded cable).
The Byte Brothers also has a continuum ranging from CAT 2 or 3 to CAT 6, where the results of the current cable test are displayed, so it can be anywhere on that line. The Signaltek simply shows a number, like "1000Mb/s-FD", which I see is CAT5e. On any tests, I don't think I've seen a higher number than that on the Signaltek.
I will confess to not being an expert on the Signaltek device, there are a lot of setup options that I don't understand. When I have understood what an option was, like checking cable data rates or not, I have tried to activate all those. The results of the Signaltek and Byte Brothers have largely agreed, which tells me that it might be set up right. The BB one has much less background info.
I had thought the Signaltek was set up to give CAT 6 results, but I look it over and can't find an option to set cable type, but it may be there.
Regardless all three cables tested individually passed both meters, with both agreeing that it passes or exceeds CAT 5e standards. The result is a little above CAT5e and just below 6 on the BB.
When connecting two cables end to end with a Neutrik coupler, the speed jumps down to 100Mb/s-FD, which is CAT5, and connecting all three results in complete failure on both testers. With 3 connected (600') the BB tells you that the skew is completely unacceptable, and the wiremap (pin to pin connections) somehow shows that 4 pins on the input side are connected to only 2 pins on the output side. The Signaltek gives a wiremap but refuses to pass data. Both measure the length more or less correctly.
When connected between a Producer and a couple of S16's, an individual cable connects fully as expected. Two cables result in red connection indicators on console and stage box, three cables together result in no lights at all on the stage box. Not sure about the console. With no connection between console and stage, obviously there is no signal passed.
So there is nothing magical about this cable and it is not exempt from length limitations to the Ethernet / AES 50 formats.
It seems to be fine cable for a reasonable price, though.
First, the cable seems nicely made and rugged. I did not disassemble anything but have no doubt it is made as they say.
Testing each of the three cables I bought, which are all nominally 200', they easily passed spec on both testers. And I should say up front that the testers largely agreed, although the Byte Brothers lets the user spec if the cable is used for Patch or for Trunk (not sure if that's the term, the tester says "Solid" as differentiated from "Patch" which are expected to be stranded cable).
The Byte Brothers also has a continuum ranging from CAT 2 or 3 to CAT 6, where the results of the current cable test are displayed, so it can be anywhere on that line. The Signaltek simply shows a number, like "1000Mb/s-FD", which I see is CAT5e. On any tests, I don't think I've seen a higher number than that on the Signaltek.
I will confess to not being an expert on the Signaltek device, there are a lot of setup options that I don't understand. When I have understood what an option was, like checking cable data rates or not, I have tried to activate all those. The results of the Signaltek and Byte Brothers have largely agreed, which tells me that it might be set up right. The BB one has much less background info.
I had thought the Signaltek was set up to give CAT 6 results, but I look it over and can't find an option to set cable type, but it may be there.
Regardless all three cables tested individually passed both meters, with both agreeing that it passes or exceeds CAT 5e standards. The result is a little above CAT5e and just below 6 on the BB.
When connecting two cables end to end with a Neutrik coupler, the speed jumps down to 100Mb/s-FD, which is CAT5, and connecting all three results in complete failure on both testers. With 3 connected (600') the BB tells you that the skew is completely unacceptable, and the wiremap (pin to pin connections) somehow shows that 4 pins on the input side are connected to only 2 pins on the output side. The Signaltek gives a wiremap but refuses to pass data. Both measure the length more or less correctly.
When connected between a Producer and a couple of S16's, an individual cable connects fully as expected. Two cables result in red connection indicators on console and stage box, three cables together result in no lights at all on the stage box. Not sure about the console. With no connection between console and stage, obviously there is no signal passed.
So there is nothing magical about this cable and it is not exempt from length limitations to the Ethernet / AES 50 formats.
It seems to be fine cable for a reasonable price, though.
Last edited by Dan Mortensen on Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RexBeckett
- Posts: 122
- Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:52 am
- Location: Bedford, UK
Re: AES50 Cables and ESD
Yes it doesn't really make sense to spend many dollars on a high-precision tester when AES50 only runs at 100 MBPS. As you say, a solid console/stagebox connection is the acid test.GaryH wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:09 pm I know! @RexBeckett I can’t really justify the expense though, if I were selling cable as a side business, then I would not hesitate. My testing is with a good (but common) cat cable tester and then the MT all green led’s with my mixer/stagebox
Re: AES50 Cables and ESD
@RexBeckett It would be nice to see if my own fabricated cable lives up to spec or not...I of course am sure it does It's been hinted at that they could be only minimally hanging on at the brink of failure...
It's been hinted at that they could be only minimally hanging on at the brink of failure...-
RexBeckett
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Re: AES50 Cables and ESD
That's always the way in the world of digital connections. They go from perfect to abysmal in the blink of an eye. There's still a lot to be said for balanced analogue lines that degrade with some grace.
Re: AES50 Cables and ESD
"They go from perfect to abysmal in the blink of an eye." @RexBeckett I have witnessed this first hand several times in my life...but I think the idea here was more along the lines of my cable construction perhaps not being as solid and up to spec as I would like to believe. Now how could THAT possibly be
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RexBeckett
- Posts: 122
- Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:52 am
- Location: Bedford, UK
Re: AES50 Cables and ESD
I'm sure you take infinite care with every connector. You may not be quite as fast as the pros, though: