AES50 Cables and ESD

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GaryH
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Re: AES50 Cables and ESD

Post by GaryH »

@Dan Mortensen I somehow missed your testing results!... thanks so much for doing and for posting them! A few things though. It doesn't really sound like those meters can test for Cat7/8 specs so you are really testing it against what the meter thinks is at max, cat6, correct? Not saying that isn't useful, it IS and believe me I will be keeping it WELL in mind next time I get close to a war regarding the sainted Cat5E ONLY business. Even at 400 feet when it dropped to Cat5 speed (and 70 feet past the acceptable length limit) it meets that spec. Which brings me to point 2. If you had a 150 foot piece You might have seen everything be up to spec speed wise and all Green at the Stageboxes (similar to my results @350 feet. At 330 I would bet for sure. But even at 350, I say its a little bit special :-) I know if you did take it apart you will see a LOT that is special. Granted some of those things may offer no advantage in our aes50 use but I think several do. Like better RFI/EMI rejection and crosstalk. Perhaps better with ESD protection too (though clearly not enough on its own). I guess that would need a different type of test to measure any differences with more or less protection anyway.
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Re: AES50 Cables and ESD

Post by Dan Mortensen »

GaryH wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:02 pm It doesn't really sound like those meters can test for Cat7/8 specs so you are really testing it against what the meter thinks is at max, cat6, correct?
Yes, that's true. I've not been looking, but I've also not seen testers that can test CAT7/8.

However, spending a couple minutes searching shows that the Fluke DSX2-8000 tests up to CAT 8. I have to assume that the purchase price is in the vicinity of the DTX-1800, which was around US$20000 8 or so years ago. Fluke also has a network of rental partners, which I have to assume also wouldn't be cheap.
GaryH wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:02 pm Not saying that isn't useful, it IS and believe me I will be keeping it WELL in mind next time I get close to a war regarding the sainted Cat5E ONLY business. Even at 400 feet when it dropped to Cat5 speed (and 70 feet past the acceptable length limit) it meets that spec. Which brings me to point 2. If you had a 150 foot piece You might have seen everything be up to spec speed wise and all Green at the Stageboxes (similar to my results @350 feet. At 330 I would bet for sure. But even at 350, I say its a little bit special :-) I know if you did take it apart you will see a LOT that is special. Granted some of those things may offer no advantage in our aes50 use but I think several do. Like better RFI/EMI rejection and crosstalk. Perhaps better with ESD protection too (though clearly not enough on its own). I guess that would need a different type of test to measure any differences with more or less protection anyway.
Any time you are at the length limit (and keep in mind that what I did had connections in the middle, an unbroken length is always better for a variety of reasons, especially the one with unbroken lengths where you don't have to worry about someone stepping on and breaking a connector, or water getting in there) you should expect weirdnesses.

I feel like my test shows that the console itself is measuring the length and refusing to connect over out-of-compliance distance, superior electrical abilities be damned. If you are a few feet plus or minus from 100meters/328 feet it may work or it may not, and that may change from instance to instance, who knows and why risk it?

I should have @GaryH you so you'd directly see my post.
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GaryH
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Re: AES50 Cables and ESD

Post by GaryH »

Thanks@Dan Mortensen I appreciate the effort and posting. It is great to see this stuff get tested! I ran into a thread this am that you and Brian Wynn participated in very early on in X32 ESD history! It was 2013? Interesting as Brian was not yet at the point of thinking an Ethercon made any difference! Some other fellow was adamant that it did! You were in there somewhere! Pro sound web? It was like dropping in on history in the making :-) pretty cool.
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Re: AES50 Cables and ESD

Post by Dan Mortensen »

GaryH wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:31 pm Thanks@Dan Mortensen I appreciate the effort and posting. It is great to see this stuff get tested! I ran into a thread this am that you and Brian Wynn participated in very early on in X32 ESD history! It was 2013? Interesting as Brian was not yet at the point of thinking an Ethercon made any difference! Some other fellow was adamant that it did! You were in there somewhere! Pro sound web? It was like dropping in on history in the making :-) pretty cool.
@GaryH Yes, it's true, I was indeed there somewhere in the history.

Another bit of X32 history that is fascinating (to me) is the original Sound Forums thread which starts with one guy in the whole world having regular access to an X32 prototype and doing his best to explain it to the world and to answer questions frankly and honestly. Christian Boche is his name, and I think Behringer should give him free consoles forever for his role in giving the product and brand both credibility and awareness.

Seeing the console evolve from Firmware 0.6 or something in response to his experiences and the comments he generated was really great, and everything that was knowable about the consoles was at one time contained in that thread.

It started in Summer 2012 and I got my first consoles in the Fall of that year. That was 9 years ago now. Amazing.
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pvannatto
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Re: AES50 Cables and ESD

Post by pvannatto »

@Dan Mortensen , just an FYI that Christian Boche is an active Wing beta tester as well.
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GaryH
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Re: AES50 Cables and ESD

Post by GaryH »

I wasn’t in as early as you both @Dan Mortensen and @pvannatto but probably somewhere fairly early on in 2013. Lots of exciting things happened pretty quickly back then, still are really. I’m glad to have been on the ride.
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Re: AES50 Cables and ESD

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I"m late to the party. I got my X32 in early 2018. It was already landed in the Behringer warehouse in Taiwan and cost about what one would pay for a WING in the US. I don't want to tell you how much the X-Dante card was....
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GaryH
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Re: AES50 Cables and ESD

Post by GaryH »

Getting back to cable. I did get the Empanar 150' cable. It works extremely well. Trims easily, flexible and strong (tactical) Will be using in the very near future outside at a festival!
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GaryH
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Re: AES50 Cables and ESD

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I decided to use the Empanar flat Cat8 exclusively at an outdoor festival yesterday. I had made up several lengths for on stage use. I went with the Neutrik TOP series ethercons (used with non terminated cable) and surprisingly the bushings did stretch to fit and fully seal the flat cable! I tested it all Saturday during set up and line checks and had zero issues so I just went with it. I did have tried and true replacements ready just in case. It was used across the stage (and under rugs) to several stage boxes. It really shined for this application as it is undetectable from above. It was walked on, stomped on, danced on and whatever else "on" all day long and never a hint of an issue. One stage box was down stage center so that particular cable got well put through its paces ALL day long. Terminating your own cable with this brand I also found to be pretty easy.
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GaryH
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Re: AES50 Cables and ESD

Post by GaryH »

I was looking around again for some more good quality Cat8 for aes50 use (I often do!). I posted previously about the Empanar brand flat cat8 this past summer which I am VERY happy with and highly recommend especially for on stage/across stage runs. I just found another product version by them but this time it's round, not flat. Knowing their stuff in the past to be of high quality I was intrigued and figured I would try some, besides I can return it if not happy. It sells for about 43 cents/ft if you buy just 100 feet. On Amazon this morning I noticed that if you buy 2 100 ft sections, it's 50% off. Nice, sign me up, buy one get one free! Anyway, I did just that and when I went to check out it not only gave me each one at 50% off BUT an additional $17.50 (20%) for buying 2 items as well! So I got 200 total feet for about 13 cents per foot, under $30 tax included! Can't beat that with a stick. I will post a link if anyone else might be interested as this is a super good deal. You don't like it, send it on back! I have been using Cat7/8 for Aes50 for a few years now without a hint of an issue. You will need to trim the anti-snag rj45 cover to add ethercons to them. That or replace them with some rj45's of your own and add ethercons.

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