Digital splitter - help and advice needed.

[andyp13]

I use an X32 with SD8 for my band drummer uses 7 chans of the SD8, everything else goes into the X32. We all use DP48’s via a Hub 4.
We have been offered some gigs where the FOH is supplied so I will need to use a splitter of some sort. As I don't have any room in my rack for this, I am looking at the possibility of Digital from the X32 (I’ll use ‘Y’ splitters for the drums via SD8. I was looking at the DN4816-O vis Ultranet from the x32 (or could I use the Stageconnect out from the HUB4?)…However, I have been informed that this would be line level not mic level and many front of house engineers would not except this - also many desks would not be able to accept line levels…
I really liked the idea of using one single cat cable (or Stage connect if it’s possible) to a rack with a DN4816-O bit if this is not possible because of the line levels, is there an alternative?

[pvannatto]

However, I have been informed that this would be line level not mic level and many front of house engineers would not except this - also many desks would not be able to accept line levels

That's not the issue. Many FOH engineers want to control the preamps (particularly the gain). Sending signals as outputs from the X32 means that you have preamp control. That is why many engineers require splitters. Most all modern consoles can accept line leve signals (the gain has to be turned down).

[andyp13]

“ That's not the issue. Many FOH engineers want to control the preamps (particularly the gain). Sending signals as outputs from the X32 means that you have preamp control. That is why many engineers require splitters. Most all modern consoles can accept line leve signals (the gain has to be turned down)”


Hi Paul, So, are you saying this can not be done…

[andyp13]

Could I use XLR microphone attenuation adaptors with -20dB PAD on the DN4816-O outs, would that solve the line level problem?

[pvannatto]

Hi Paul, So, are you saying this can not be done…

No, I'm saying that most modern consoles can handle line level inputs without any problems. The issue with many FOH engineers is not being able to control the input gains. That is why many require splitters. Of course many venues provide splitters anyways.

Could I use XLR microphone attenuation adaptors with -20dB PAD on the DN4816-O outs, would that solve the line level problem?

It isn't necessary, since line level signals aren't the issue.

[andyp13]

Sorry for the confusion… but wouldn’t attenuating the line level signal give the engineer more control over the gain?
I’m getting a bit lost with your comments about control of gain and saying line level isn’t the issue?
a line level wouldn’t enable the engineer to control gain but if I used an XLR attenuator then it would enable the engineer to control the gain…. Sorry if I’m missing the point bit I really have no idea of what you are referring to if not gain..

[craigf]

Using a pad to attenuate the line-level signal being sent to FOH would in theory give the FOH engineer more headroom. That's not the main issue though.

The issue is that because the signal is split after your X32\SD8 preamp, the signal that FOH receives from you is post preamp, and is therefore affected by any changes you make to the preamp gain. If you were to boost the preamp gain on a particular channel because you wanted it louder in your monitors, not only would that change affect all your monitors, it would also affect the level being sent to FOH, which might be inconvenient for them if they're not ready for it.

If OTOH you were to use an analogue split, you'd be splitting the signal before it hits your preamps. That way the signal gets to FOH before it's affected by your preamp. Not only does this mean the signal getting to FOH is mic-level as opposed to line level, giving the FOH engineer a lot more headroom to work with, but more importantly, it means that any preamp changes you make in your monitors won't affect the signal being sent to FOH.

[pvannatto]

a line level wouldn’t enable the engineer to control gain but if I used an XLR attenuator then it would enable the engineer to control the gain

I'm talking about the gain at the analog level, where the actual preamps are. In the X32 world, the preamps are physically integrated with the XLR jacks (in the back of the X32 and in the SD8). The gain control in the X32 is actually a remote control of the preamp gain control and occurs just before the ADC (analog to digital converter). Once converted to digital, the X32 processes this signal and for the most part converts the final outputs back to analog (using DAC). If you send the signals via stagebox outputs (eg. DN4816-O or SD8, etc) to FOH, you are sending them processed signals (preamp gain setting, ADC, DAC) as line level signals. That means that FOH is reliant on your preamp gain control settings and the quality of the double conversions (ADC and DAC). Granted they can adjust their gains in their console. But if you have your gains set improperly (resulting in clipping or low signal), they are stuck with that. That is what they don't want. Instead, they want the unprocessed signals from the source (eg. mic, guitar, etc.) and insist on using a splitter for that reason.

wouldn’t attenuating the line level signal give the engineer more control over the gain?

Not necessarily. It only means that they get a weaker signal that needs to be boosted to line level. Understand that when you boost any signal, you also boost the "noise floor" (you hear that as hiss, etc.). If you do send any signal to another device or console, it is better to sent the strongest signal without clipping.

[andyp13]

Using a pad to attenuate the line-level signal being sent to FOH would in theory give the FOH engineer more headroom. That's not the main issue though.

The issue is that because the signal is split after your X32\SD8 preamp, the signal that FOH receives from you is post preamp, and is therefore affected by any changes you make to the preamp gain. If you were to boost the preamp gain on a particular channel because you wanted it louder in your monitors, not only would that change affect all your monitors, it would also affect the level being sent to FOH, which might be inconvenient for them if they're not ready for it.

If OTOH you were to use an analogue split, you'd be splitting the signal before it hits your preamps. That way the signal gets to FOH before it's affected by your preamp. Not only does this mean the signal getting to FOH is mic-level as opposed to line level, giving the FOH engineer a lot more headroom to work with, but more importantly, it means that any preamp changes you make in your monitors won't affect the signal being sent to FOH.

The signals would be going to the DN4016 from the Ultranet cable…all the guys in the band use DP48’s which means we get the signal from the AES50 cable…so if anyone adjusts a level of an instrument in their monitor mix it would not affect the signal going to FOH have I got that correct?

[andyp13]

Hi Paul.

Ok, I understand now…seems a shame that it can’t really be used and also a shame that Behringer/midas have not produced something that would work, I really don’t have the space to be able to accommodate a splitter rack which is why the convenience of a DN4816-O would have been an ideal solution. We all use DP48’s via the HUB4 so we would not have necessarily interfered with the FOH signal which would be using Ultranet. Looks like it’s back to the drawing board