Where should I set the send point in the Send Tab?

[STELO]

Hi.
In the Send Tab on the top of the Behringer App "X-Air Edit" I can set the point where I send Fx (Effects).
But which point makes the best sense?
F.e.: should be a delay or reverb before or after the channel fader?
Maybe someone has more experience than me.

[pvannatto]

@STELO, channel sends to FX should always be post fader in order to maintain the wet/dry ratio during a performance.

[STELO]

@STELO, channel sends to FX should always be post fader in order to maintain the wet/dry ratio during a performance.

But if, a singer f.e., uses an in-ear, which gets the signal pre-fader and he wants some delay or reverb on the in-ear, your way will not work.
Or am I wrong?

[pvannatto]

But if, a singer f.e., uses an in-ear, which gets the signal pre-fader and he wants some delay or reverb on the in-ear, your way will not work.

Neither pre or post taps will work as expected with IEM mixes. The reason is that the channel sends to the mixbuses that feeds the FX engines are FOH mix focused. Channel sends to FX are parallel to the sends to IEM mixes (as well as to any other mixbuses). A real-life scenario (that happened at my church 2 weeks ago) should bring this to light. We had a lead singer and 2 backing singers (plus various instruments, etc.). One of the backing singers really liked the 3rd song and started to sing louder than normal. Her channel fader was instantly dropped appropriately to maintain the FOH mix. Since the channel sends to the FX mixbuses were post fader, those signals were also reduced and the wet/dry mix ratio was maintained for both FOH and any FX return sends to IEM mixes.

If in this scenario, the channel sends to the FX mixbuses were pre fader, when the singer raised her voice, the backing singer signal to the FX mixbuses would not change when FOH reduced his/her channel strip fader.

The reason why I said that neither pre or post will work as expected is because the IEM mixes will be different than FOH. Since the FX wet signal will always be related to FOH mix, if the lead singer turns down (or off) other vocals in his/her mix, but wants some reverb of his/her vocal only, that won't be possible, since the FX wet signal will be a blend of all vocals for FOH mix. If he/she brings up the reverb, he/she will get all vocal wet signals (pre or post taps).

The only way to have separate IEM FX wet signals (independent on FOH) is to upgrade to an X32 Rack and get some Midas DP48 personal mixers (since they have FX built-in).

[STELO]

But if, a singer f.e., uses an in-ear, which gets the signal pre-fader and he wants some delay or reverb on the in-ear, your way will not work.

Neither pre or post taps will work as expected with IEM mixes. The reason is that the channel sends to the mixbuses that feeds the FX engines are FOH mix focused. Channel sends to FX are parallel to the sends to IEM mixes (as well as to any other mixbuses). A real-life scenario (that happened at my church 2 weeks ago) should bring this to light. We had a lead singer and 2 backing singers (plus various instruments, etc.). One of the backing singers really liked the 3rd song and started to sing louder than normal. Her channel fader was instantly dropped appropriately to maintain the FOH mix. Since the channel sends to the FX mixbuses were post fader, those signals were also reduced and the wet/dry mix ratio was maintained for both FOH and any FX return sends to IEM mixes.

If in this scenario, the channel sends to the FX mixbuses were pre fader, when the singer raised her voice, the backing singer signal to the FX mixbuses would not change when FOH reduced his/her channel strip fader.

The reason why I said that neither pre or post will work as expected is because the IEM mixes will be different than FOH. Since the FX wet signal will always be related to FOH mix, if the lead singer turns down (or off) other vocals in his/her mix, but wants some reverb of his/her vocal only, that won't be possible, since the FX wet signal will be a blend of all vocals for FOH mix. If he/she brings up the reverb, he/she will get all vocal wet signals (pre or post taps).

The only way to have separate IEM FX wet signals (independent on FOH) is to upgrade to an X32 Rack and get some Midas DP48 personal mixers (since they have FX built-in).

Maybe I misunderstand your words.
But in my band, we use the Buses 1 -6 for personal monitoring. We work with In-Ears and of course the singer get a delay and a reverb in his In-Ear.
???

[pvannatto]

We work with In-Ears and of course the singer get a delay and a reverb in his In-Ear.

Evidently you only have one singer in your band. If that is the case, the issues I explained are moot points. If you had given more details (one singer in your band, your concern of FX in IEMs, what F.E. stands for, etc.) in your original post, I wouldn't have had to take the time to explain the issues of using the same FX engines in both FOH and monitors.

If you use the same FX engine for both IEM and FOH and use the pre taps, and you only have one singer, it can work for the IEM. But it will not work correctly for FOH. A workaround is to use 2 of the FX slots for FOH and the other 2 FX slots for IEM.

[STELO]

We work with In-Ears and of course the singer get a delay and a reverb in his In-Ear.

Evidently you only have one singer in your band. If that is the case, the issues I explained are moot points. If you had given more details (one singer in your band, your concern of FX in IEMs, what F.E. stands for, etc.) in your original post, I wouldn't have had to take the time to explain the issues of using the same FX engines in both FOH and monitors.

If you use the same FX engine for both IEM and FOH and use the pre taps, and you only have one singer, it can work for the IEM. But it will not work correctly for FOH. A workaround is to use 2 of the FX slots for FOH and the other 2 FX slots for IEM.

Ok, so that was my mistake for not explaining exactly what
we are doing.
Well, sometimes we really don't know, what we are doing
in the band.

We have 2 singers who both need all 4 FX in their In-Ear and with FOH.
So what will be the problems if we use all the FX pre fader?
Maybe you could explain it to me beause I think I didn't
understand it.

[pvannatto]

So what will be the problems if we use all the FX pre fader?
Maybe you could explain it to me beause I think I didn't

I would suggest that you try it (pre-fader taps). You will quickly hear the problem.
Set your vocal mixes as desired and the sends mixes to the FX engines.
Then raise a vocal channel fader and you will notice that there is less FX in the FOH mix than before.
Finally lower a vocal channel fader (eg. -25db) and you will notice that there is more FX in the FOH mix than before.
This will be because the sends to the FX are independent (pre-fader) to the channel faders (dry signals).
The balance between the dry and wet signals is what you want to maintain and that can only be accomplished using post-fader sends to the FX.

[STELO]

Thank you so far.
Attached you'll find a picture of the XAir App. On it, you'll see the a marked part, which shows the possibility to set the different level of the Sends.
For what is that? Isn't that exactly that what I need?

[pvannatto]

For what is that? Isn't that exactly that what I need?

That is one place you can change the sends levels to FX. You can also do it on the Sends screen (7th tab at the top). Also on that screen, you can change the taps. The other way to set sends level is to select the bus (on right side), for example Reverb. That changes the faders to SOF (sends on faders) and you can adjust the sends levels by moving the desired faders.