Making the Leap from X32 to Wing TODAY

[Jsun_Tyler]

First impression much heavier than I expected

Only slightly heavier by about 3.4kg, and 1kg lighter than an M32, but put it into a road case and it seems to weigh the mass of a small sun lol

For that reason I got a case with wheels

[DaveT]

The wheels are what added the weight to just beyond manageable by one person for me. if the wheels hadn't been on mine then I could actually man handle it myself in and out of the vehicles and on and off its stands, but I agree the wheels are then the god send for getting it in and out the venues, ohh and the fact I have a Mac mini, art net lighting controller, airport express, 8 port network hub, and UPS all in the dog house as well LOL

[Jsun_Tyler]

I have newbie questions should I post here or create a new thread?

[KMaxwell]

if the question is steering things in a new direction it might help to do it in a new thread, more people might see it then. But this is just my own opinion.

[Jsun_Tyler]

if the question is steering things in a new direction it might help to do it in a new thread, more people might see it then. But this is just my own opinion.

Routing and Bus questions to start. I was watching a video by Drew about effects returns using a bus. This concerns me because I plan to use all of the mix bus for IEM.

Routing
Will this setup allow the wing to see the I/O's of mg S32 connected to M32c?

Wing port A to M32c port A
M32c port B to S32 port A

Wing acknowledges M32c

[KMaxwell]

@Jsun_Tyler I was about to write a long reply to touch on some of the questions that you have asked. I reread this entire thread and I have one (or two) important question for you. How many inputs do you plan on using in this system? Do any of the IEMs need to be stereo? Is this for a portable system?

[Jsun_Tyler]

@Jsun_Tyler I was about to write a long reply to touch on some of the questions that you have asked. I reread this entire thread and I have one (or two) important question for you. How many inputs do you plan on using in this system? Do any of the IEMs need to be stereo? Is this for a portable system?

How many inputs do you plan on using in this system?
I am attempting to duplicate my x32 console (FOH) and x32 rack/DL32 setup.
X32Console Port A to X32 rack Port A
X32 rack Port B to DL32 Port A
Using 25 inputs on DL32 and all 16 outputs which I have two stereo pair and the remaining 12 are mono for Mixbus IEM
FOH is receiving input signals from X32 rack
X32 rack has a wifi router attached which allows band members to mix their on IEM via Mixing station
FOH is completely free to mix at will with no interference from the band, FOH has mains and subs directly connected

Do any of the IEMs need to be stereo?
The main reason I purchased the Wing is for 16 stereo IEM bus capability. My hope was that I could still take advantage of a sepereate system for the band members to use along with the 16 stereo buses

[KMaxwell]

@Jsun_Tyler I was about to write a long reply to touch on some of the questions that you have asked. I reread this entire thread and I have one (or two) important question for you. How many inputs do you plan on using in this system? Do any of the IEMs need to be stereo? Is this for a portable system?

How many inputs do you plan on using in this system?
I am attempting to duplicate my x32 console (FOH) and x32 rack/DL32 setup.
X32Console Port A to X32 rack Port A
X32 rack Port B to DL32 Port A
Using 25 inputs on DL32 and all 16 outputs which I have two stereo pair and the remaining 12 are mono for Mixbus IEM
FOH is receiving input signals from X32 rack
X32 rack has a wifi router attached which allows band members to mix their on IEM via Mixing station
FOH is completely free to mix at will with no interference from the band, FOH has mains and subs directly connected

Do any of the IEMs need to be stereo?
The main reason I purchased the Wing is for 16 stereo IEM bus capability. My hope was that I could still take advantage of a sepereate system for the band members to use along with the 16 stereo buses

I set up a church system (install) that used to use an X32 at FOH and an X32Rack on stage for IEMs with a DL32. The X32 AES50a was connected to the DL32 on AES50a. The X32Rack AES50a was connected to the DL32 AES50b. Then the X32 was replaced with a WING. This may be a simpler system then it sounds like you are putting together.

Is this in a church? Is it a portable system of an install?

There are some things that you are saying that doesn’t make sense to me or I do not understand what you are writing. You mention having 2 Midas DL32 stage boxes and you mention the M32c (core) and having an X32Rack and a full size X32. On the X32 rack or core you can only mix 32 channels (all Mono) with full capabilities and 8 Aux inputs with limited capabilities. You also have 8 FX return inputs that by default are linked as 4 stereo FX returns. But if you only have 25 inputs then it seems like your issue is getting enough outputs for the IEMs. Are the IEMs hardwired or wireless? You said “FOH is receiving input signals from X32 rack” do you mean the 32 channels that go into the rack from the DL32 are coming to the WING thru the X32Rack or do you have some analog inputs into the X32Rack itself? Where does this 2nd DL32 come into play and where is the X32Core or where are you using it or where do you want to use it?

Most musicians don’t really need stereo IEMs. You will probably find that some of them are just using one ear bud (they take the other out or never put it in) because they want to hear the room. So if they have a stereo feed to their IEMs and they are using only on ear bud what good does that do. You can get the number of IEM mixes that you say you want - mono 12 and 2 stereo IEM mixes with the X32Rack but the question is since the X32Rack only has 8 XLR connectors where do you get the additional 8 analog outputs that you need. You can use the balanced ¼” outputs if you wanted to. They are a little bit different then the XLR outs, they are lower in level. But depending on what you are feeding, that might not be an issue. If you used the Full size X32 as the IEM mixer you would have 16 XLR outputs there.

I would set it up the way I mentioned at the beginning. DL32 AES50a going to the WING AES50a and then the AES50B from the DL32 into the AES50a on the X32Rack or the X32 full size replacing the rack. This will give you Pre-amp gain on only the WING. And your devices running Mixing station will still be controlling the X32Rack or X32.

And I would suggest that if the musicians want effects in their IEMs that you feed that from the WING to one of the outputs of the DL32 and then plug that into one of the inputs on the X32Rack. This way you would probably be killing the reverb to the house mix when there is no singing and the singers won’t be hearing someone talking on a singing mic with reverb.

Also if you have other inputs on the WING (like playback of a video or something else like that) you can send that to the DL32 outputs and use an XLR cable input into the X32Rack and route it to the Aux inputs. There may be a way to cross patch this but this way is the most straight forward and probably the least confusing.

Also then if you wanted to you could send 2 stereo Mix Bus sends from the WING to the 2 that want stereo IEMs to the outputs on the DL32 for that, if you didn’t want that on the X32Rack. You can use one Wi-Fi device on the X32Rack and a different one on the WING if you want to and only the people with the stereo IEMs coming from the WING would have access to it from the dedicated Wi-Fi hooked up to the WING.

There is another complexly different way to have a separate House and Monitor mixers. That is to use an analog split but that will add a cost that shouldn’t be necessary. But it is usually the way that a professional concert system is setup. I love it when a band shows up with their own IEMs and IEM mixer and gives me the tails to plug into our system.

BTW when setting up a separate monitor mixer the standard way that is done is all Mix Bus sends are Post fader. Then all of the input faders are set to nominal. This allows the monitor engineer or probably in your case the sound person running all of this to increase or decrease the level of an input to every mix with one fader movement (the input fader) instead of having to change all of the pre-fader sends for that input. This is in case something is just too loud or too soft. Then all of the individual sends to the Mix bus are still able to be mixed as they want. If this is done on the gain control mid show the musicians/singers will hear the standard zipper sound when a gain control is changed.
I know this is a lot but I hope it helps you.

[Jsun_Tyler]

@Jsun_Tyler I was about to write a long reply to touch on some of the questions that you have asked. I reread this entire thread and I have one (or two) important question for you. How many inputs do you plan on using in this system? Do any of the IEMs need to be stereo? Is this for a portable system?

How many inputs do you plan on using in this system?
I am attempting to duplicate my x32 console (FOH) and x32 rack/DL32 setup.
X32Console Port A to X32 rack Port A
X32 rack Port B to DL32 Port A
Using 25 inputs on DL32 and all 16 outputs which I have two stereo pair and the remaining 12 are mono for Mixbus IEM
FOH is receiving input signals from X32 rack
X32 rack has a wifi router attached which allows band members to mix their on IEM via Mixing station
FOH is completely free to mix at will with no interference from the band, FOH has mains and subs directly connected

Do any of the IEMs need to be stereo?
The main reason I purchased the Wing is for 16 stereo IEM bus capability. My hope was that I could still take advantage of a sepereate system for the band members to use along with the 16 stereo buses

I set up a church system (install) that used to use an X32 at FOH and an X32Rack on stage for IEMs with a DL32. The X32 AES50a was connected to the DL32 on AES50a. The X32Rack AES50a was connected to the DL32 AES50b. Then the X32 was replaced with a WING. This may be a simpler system then it sounds like you are putting together.

Is this in a church? Is it a portable system of an install?

There are some things that you are saying that doesn’t make sense to me or I do not understand what you are writing. You mention having 2 Midas DL32 stage boxes and you mention the M32c (core) and having an X32Rack and a full size X32. On the X32 rack or core you can only mix 32 channels (all Mono) with full capabilities and 8 Aux inputs with limited capabilities. You also have 8 FX return inputs that by default are linked as 4 stereo FX returns. But if you only have 25 inputs then it seems like your issue is getting enough outputs for the IEMs. Are the IEMs hardwired or wireless? You said “FOH is receiving input signals from X32 rack” do you mean the 32 channels that go into the rack from the DL32 are coming to the WING thru the X32Rack or do you have some analog inputs into the X32Rack itself? Where does this 2nd DL32 come into play and where is the X32Core or where are you using it or where do you want to use it?

Most musicians don’t really need stereo IEMs. You will probably find that some of them are just using one ear bud (they take the other out or never put it in) because they want to hear the room. So if they have a stereo feed to their IEMs and they are using only on ear bud what good does that do. You can get the number of IEM mixes that you say you want - mono 12 and 2 stereo IEM mixes with the X32Rack but the question is since the X32Rack only has 8 XLR connectors where do you get the additional 8 analog outputs that you need. You can use the balanced ¼” outputs if you wanted to. They are a little bit different then the XLR outs, they are lower in level. But depending on what you are feeding, that might not be an issue. If you used the Full size X32 as the IEM mixer you would have 16 XLR outputs there.

I would set it up the way I mentioned at the beginning. DL32 AES50a going to the WING AES50a and then the AES50B from the DL32 into the AES50a on the X32Rack or the X32 full size replacing the rack. This will give you Pre-amp gain on only the WING. And your devices running Mixing station will still be controlling the X32Rack or X32.

And I would suggest that if the musicians want effects in their IEMs that you feed that from the WING to one of the outputs of the DL32 and then plug that into one of the inputs on the X32Rack. This way you would probably be killing the reverb to the house mix when there is no singing and the singers won’t be hearing someone talking on a singing mic with reverb.

Also if you have other inputs on the WING (like playback of a video or something else like that) you can send that to the DL32 outputs and use an XLR cable input into the X32Rack and route it to the Aux inputs. There may be a way to cross patch this but this way is the most straight forward and probably the least confusing.

Also then if you wanted to you could send 2 stereo Mix Bus sends from the WING to the 2 that want stereo IEMs to the outputs on the DL32 for that, if you didn’t want that on the X32Rack. You can use one Wi-Fi device on the X32Rack and a different one on the WING if you want to and only the people with the stereo IEMs coming from the WING would have access to it from the dedicated Wi-Fi hooked up to the WING.

There is another complexly different way to have a separate House and Monitor mixers. That is to use an analog split but that will add a cost that shouldn’t be necessary. But it is usually the way that a professional concert system is setup. I love it when a band shows up with their own IEMs and IEM mixer and gives me the tails to plug into our system.

BTW when setting up a separate monitor mixer the standard way that is done is all Mix Bus sends are Post fader. Then all of the input faders are set to nominal. This allows the monitor engineer or probably in your case the sound person running all of this to increase or decrease the level of an input to every mix with one fader movement (the input fader) instead of having to change all of the pre-fader sends for that input. This is in case something is just too loud or too soft. Then all of the individual sends to the Mix bus are still able to be mixed as they want. If this is done on the gain control mid show the musicians/singers will hear the standard zipper sound when a gain control is changed.
I know this is a lot but I hope it helps you.

Is this in a church? Is it a portable system of an install? This is for a 14 piece Corporate Band so portable

But if you only have 25 inputs then it seems like your issue is getting enough outputs for the IEMs. Correct which is my primary reason for buying the wing to take advantage of the 16 stereo bus

Are the IEMs hardwired or wireless? Both vocals are wireless and the band is wired

You said “FOH is receiving input signals from X32 rack” do you mean the 32 channels that go into the rack from the DL32 are coming to the WING thru the X32Rack or do you have some analog inputs into the X32Rack itself? This post is to help me setup the Wing to answer your question I have inputs connected to the DL32 which is connected to the X32rack which sending those signals back to X32 Console. I currently basically have two system connected together. In previous post I attached scences to help paint the picture better of my setup. My setup is complicated because it took help from members in this forum for me to get all my custom routing corrected.

Where does this 2nd DL32 come into play and where is the X32Core or where are you using it or where do you want to use it? X32 Core if you mean my X32 console is handling FOH only. Because I stream our performances as well I have access to multiple DL32 and M32c essentially 3 systems doing different things.

Most musicians don’t really need stereo IEMs. My opinion yes, with a band as large as we have, having the ability to pan instruments and vocals makes a world of difference

You can get the number of IEM mixes that you say you want - mono 12 and 2 stereo IEM mixes with the X32Rack but the question is since the X32Rack only has 8 XLR connectors where do you get the additional 8 analog outputs that you need. Rack primary purpose is to send a signal back to X32 console FOH that's it. The DL32 connected to it is handling all of the physical inputs and outputs

I would set it up the way I mentioned at the beginning. DL32 AES50a going to the WING AES50a and then the AES50B from the DL32 into the AES50a on the X32Rack or the X32 full size replacing the rack. This will give you Pre-amp gain on only the WING. And your devices running Mixing station will still be controlling the X32Rack or X32. This is close to what I currently have. Your setup it appears the DL32 is primary and I have it setup the opposite with x32rack as the primary. The main reason is for what I said early I only need the rack to handle sending the signals to FOH or and I forgot to handle wifi for my band members to handle their own IEM via mixing station on their phones or tablets. Less of a headache for me that way for the musicians and vocals to be responsible for handling their own mix

Also then if you wanted to you could send 2 stereo Mix Bus sends from the WING to the 2 that want stereo IEMs to the outputs on the DL32 for that, if you didn’t want that on the X32Rack. You can use one Wi-Fi device on the X32Rack and a different one on the WING if you want to and only the people with the stereo IEMs coming from the WING would have access to it from the dedicated Wi-Fi hooked up to the WING. I like this idea but I want to try and avoid my musicians from having any direct access to the wing if I can help it. My goal is to determine if I can have them manage their IEM mix not directly having to deal with the Wing like it is now with my X32 console. Key part if that is possible on the Wing

BTW when setting up a separate monitor mixer the standard way that is done is all Mix Bus sends are Post fader. Then all of the input faders are set to nominal. This allows the monitor engineer or probably in your case the sound person running all of this to increase or decrease the level of an input to every mix with one fader movement (the input fader) instead of having to change all of the pre-fader sends for that input. This is in case something is just too loud or too soft. Then all of the individual sends to the Mix bus are still able to be mixed as they want. If this is done on the gain control mid show the musicians/singers will hear the standard zipper sound when a gain control is changed. Currently all of our IEM mixes are prefader. If they were post fader every change made to FOH would change their mix. Prefader gives the ability to adjust at will and FOH can mix freely unless he starts to change gains on the channel and that does change our mixes slightly. We have been at this going 3 years strong so my hope is the Wing which I think it will I just have to learn how to make it perform the way I want.

Great post it gave me a lot to consider

[KMaxwell]

I was typing up a really long reply to every point but I decided that there is something either I am not understanding or you have things happening here that are not made clear by your posts. Or there is somethings setup in a way that just doesn’t make sense to me. And I am a freelance Audio Engineer and have been for a long time, I make my living doing this.

But for now with what it seems like you want to do I think you should really use the WING as your IEM (monitor) mixer and the X32 as your FOH mixer.