Wing Routing 101

Behringer WING Consoles
Jsun_Tyler
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Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2022 3:16 pm

Wing Routing 101

Post by Jsun_Tyler »

This idea below was given by @KMaxwell

For someone making the transition from X32 what are suggested methods to wrap my mind around how to route this properly?

I set up a church system (install) that used to use an X32 at FOH and an X32Rack on stage for IEMs with a DL32. The X32 AES50a was connected to the DL32 on AES50a. The X32Rack AES50a was connected to the DL32 AES50b. Then the X32 was replaced with a WING. This may be a simpler system then it sounds like you are putting together.

I would set it up the way I mentioned at the beginning. DL32 AES50a going to the WING AES50a and then the AES50B from the DL32 into the AES50a on the X32Rack or the X32 full size replacing the rack. This will give you Pre-amp gain on only the WING. And your devices running Mixing station will still be controlling the X32Rack or X32.
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pvannatto
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Re: Wing Routing 101

Post by pvannatto »

@Jsun_Tyler, the issue with what you suggest is that the X32 Rack will have no access to the DL32 outputs. Are you planning on using the rear outputs of the X32 Rack?
Paul Vannatto
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Jsun_Tyler
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Re: Wing Routing 101

Post by Jsun_Tyler »

I want to try this
Wing aes port A to DL32 port A
DL32 aes port B to aes port A of M32c
Wing aes port B to another DL32 aes port A

The desire would be for the M32c to control IEM mixes
Everything below needs to be configured on M32c

Inputs 1-26 for band instruments

Ableton Card inputs/outputs not sure for 27/28 for stems that don't got to foh

29/30 for stems that do go to foh

31 Band cues from Ableton

32 Click track from Ableton

Also need audio via usb to play from laptop via 31/32

This setup took years to get the routing correct on X32 minus the second DL32

Any tips are welcome

@pvannatto This is your masterpiece you helped me with
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pvannatto
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Re: Wing Routing 101

Post by pvannatto »

Jsun_Tyler wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:18 am The desire would be for the M32c to control IEM mixes
If that is the case, the IEM's have to be fed by outputs of the M32C. If you are connecting the M32C to the B port of the DL32, it will not have access to the DL32 outputs. Since the M32C does not have analog outputs of itself, where are you outputting to?
Paul Vannatto
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craigf
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Re: Wing Routing 101

Post by craigf »

A console connected to the DL32's B socket can pass 16 signals to the DL32's A socket, which can then end at the console connected to the A socket. These could then be passed back to the DL32's analogue outs.
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GaryH
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Re: Wing Routing 101

Post by GaryH »

It is a bit convoluted sending the output assignments from a B port connected console through a DL/S32. It can however be done. The A side console sees those B console output assignments as aes50A in 33-48 due to the.32 ch upward shift the DL32 imparts by design. The DL preamp inputs themselves being the first 32 ch's, (aes50A in 1-32) To then output those B console assignments, you need to send aes50a in 33-48 as the first 16 outputs from the A side console output routing.

A port connected console:
Aes50 A out 1-8 = aes50a 33-40 (first 8 B port mixer assignments)
Aes50 A out 9-16 = aes50a 41-48 (B port mixer output assignments 9-16)
Jsun_Tyler
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Re: Wing Routing 101

Post by Jsun_Tyler »

pvannatto wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:11 am @Jsun_Tyler, the issue with what you suggest is that the X32 Rack will have no access to the DL32 outputs. Are you planning on using the rear outputs of the X32 Rack?
No which is why I put the M32c in place instead of the rack. Would this work better
Wing aes port A to M32c aes port A
M32c port aes port B to DL32 aes port A
Wing aes port B to DL32 aes port A

or

Wing aes port A to M32c aes port A
Wing Aes port B to DL32 aes port A
Wing aes port C to DL32 aes port A

I don't have enough experience to know if the setup above gives the M32c the ability to handle IEM mix .
KMaxwell
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Re: Wing Routing 101

Post by KMaxwell »

I think the last thing that I had suggested after now possibly understanding what I think he wants to do was the following. “But for now with what it seems like you want to do I think you should really use the WING as your IEM (monitor) mixer and the X32 as your FOH mixer.”

He seems to want 16 stereo IEM mixes with the musicians controlling the mixes with Mixing Station. But not having any of the control of the WING. I can understand that and if he were to use the WING as the monitor mixer then he could accomplish that. I had written a long reply to him at one point but I don’t think I posted it. In it a wrote –

Are you on the Mixing station community and do you have a Shared/Public App settings there of what your people use to mix house and monitors? I have some on there that use the X32Rack for IEM mixes and I use the IDCAs to simplify things for the singers and band and they are public and available to download and play with. If you want to check them out I can post a link for it.

I checked out your band on line and it looks like with this type of band your sound person mixes with a tablet all of the time. If the mixer is always at the side of the stage and the person mixing is on a tablet then I really think you best bet would be to use the WING at side stage use the DL32 into AES50a from the WING to the AES50a on the DL32. Then setup each person’s phone or tablet running Mixing Station to be in restricted mode using the Mix bus that is just for them. They are less likely to get at the FOH mix that way. And if you setup mixing station like I have it will be even easier for them to mix for their IEMs. Then to get more physical outputs (XLRs?) to feed all of the stereo IEMs. It looks like the new Midas Stage Connect output device would be good for that. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... -interface

With that configuration you would have 32 inputs (with mic preamps) from the DL32 and 8 more on the WING for a total of 40 inputs there, besides the 8 ¼” inputs. And you would have 16 XLR outputs on the DL32 and 8 on the back of the WING and 16 more outputs with the DN4816 Stage Connect and that just plugs into the WING using an XLR cable. The maximum cable length for these devices is 40meters (about 131 feet) it can’t be as long as an EtherCon that you would use when putting the WING way out in the audience area. But that isn’t an issue at all if the WING and the DN4816 are right next to each other at the side of the stage. The total physical XLR outputs would be 40. This setup would allow for anyone mixing for their IEMs to have access to all inputs on the WING. Any other way that you do this it would (in my opinion) be more complicated and you wouldn’t have all WING inputs to all of the different IEM mixes.

If you were to get a DP48 (or 2 of them) for the backline musicians this would free up 2 to 4 Mix Bus(es) and allow you more flexibility in the WING to use a Mix Bus for your streaming feed and a few to configure for effects.
Jsun_Tyler
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Re: Wing Routing 101

Post by Jsun_Tyler »

KMaxwell wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:08 pm I think the last thing that I had suggested after now possibly understanding what I think he wants to do was the following. “But for now with what it seems like you want to do I think you should really use the WING as your IEM (monitor) mixer and the X32 as your FOH mixer.”

He seems to want 16 stereo IEM mixes with the musicians controlling the mixes with Mixing Station. But not having any of the control of the WING. I can understand that and if he were to use the WING as the monitor mixer then he could accomplish that. I had written a long reply to him at one point but I don’t think I posted it. In it a wrote –

Are you on the Mixing station community and do you have a Shared/Public App settings there of what your people use to mix house and monitors? I have some on there that use the X32Rack for IEM mixes and I use the IDCAs to simplify things for the singers and band and they are public and available to download and play with. If you want to check them out I can post a link for it.

I checked out your band on line and it looks like with this type of band your sound person mixes with a tablet all of the time. If the mixer is always at the side of the stage and the person mixing is on a tablet then I really think you best bet would be to use the WING at side stage use the DL32 into AES50a from the WING to the AES50a on the DL32. Then setup each person’s phone or tablet running Mixing Station to be in restricted mode using the Mix bus that is just for them. They are less likely to get at the FOH mix that way. And if you setup mixing station like I have it will be even easier for them to mix for their IEMs. Then to get more physical outputs (XLRs?) to feed all of the stereo IEMs. It looks like the new Midas Stage Connect output device would be good for that. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... -interface

With that configuration you would have 32 inputs (with mic preamps) from the DL32 and 8 more on the WING for a total of 40 inputs there, besides the 8 ¼” inputs. And you would have 16 XLR outputs on the DL32 and 8 on the back of the WING and 16 more outputs with the DN4816 Stage Connect and that just plugs into the WING using an XLR cable. The maximum cable length for these devices is 40meters (about 131 feet) it can’t be as long as an EtherCon that you would use when putting the WING way out in the audience area. But that isn’t an issue at all if the WING and the DN4816 are right next to each other at the side of the stage. The total physical XLR outputs would be 40. This setup would allow for anyone mixing for their IEMs to have access to all inputs on the WING. Any other way that you do this it would (in my opinion) be more complicated and you wouldn’t have all WING inputs to all of the different IEM mixes.

If you were to get a DP48 (or 2 of them) for the backline musicians this would free up 2 to 4 Mix Bus(es) and allow you more flexibility in the WING to use a Mix Bus for your streaming feed and a few to configure for effects.
In my opinion that would be a big waste to reduce the Wing to just an IEM primary unit. All of the other bells and whistle will be wasted that can enhance the FOH. My current setup was difficult but we got it worked out. There has to be a way to get the best of both worlds. It may take some time figure out but I am confident with folks who helped me before like @pvannatto I will get my 16 stereo IEM's controlled by the band and Wing handling FOH. If we did it with X32 limitation we will get it done with the Wing💪🏾. Looks like once again I am stretching behringer products to their limit 😎

Confidence is high on this one
KMaxwell
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Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:42 am

Re: Wing Routing 101

Post by KMaxwell »

You need a WING Rack.
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